Were "fan expectations" the problem?

I do find it interesting how quickly the slanderous "Jar Jar Abrams" position has glossed into a softer view these days.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

As Mark Hamill said, "People complaining about a Star Wars movie? Imagine that!"



Cheers,
Jayson

 

Very well said. I am not a fan of The Last Jedi but I can see why people do like it. I was expecting to see some answers to the questions posed in TFA or at least some expansion to them and I wasn't disappointed that Rey isn't a Kenobi or whatever. However I was disappointed with what I feel is the lack of story going forward. I don't like saying this but I currently have little to no interest in episode 9 and if there is anything I hate about TLJ it is the apathy it has left me with.

 

This is well said, and I think speaks to a larger apathy with the sequel trilogy. The new characters just aren't grabbing the public's attention. People don't care about Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo Ren. Disney has finally realized this and that's why SW merchandising is moving heavily back to Vintage material. The characters from a 42 year old movie are far more memorable than the characters in existence today.

It is sad how far SW is off the public's radar. For example, you just don't see general pop culture references to SW characters (or, to be clear, the non-vintage SW characters). Game of Thrones is everywhere. The MCU is everywhere. But if you bring up Rey, Finn and Poe, you just get blank stares in return.

 

All 3 of these statements are patently untrue, especially among the demographic that has always been Star Wars' primary audience: kids.

 

What are you basing this off of? Toy sales? A Geeks and Gamers comment section? Both are pretty poor way to gauge public interest. The huge first of its kind ridiculously expensive Galaxy's Edge is heavily sequel trilogy based. Disney World as it stands right now is heavily revolved around the sequel trilogy. I had to wait in line for an hour to take a picture with Kylo Ren. I saw about a thousand people cosplaying Rey at Celebration. Hell I teach elementary school and I see plenty of Star Wars book bags, lunchboxes, and shirts.

 

We expected the Jedi to be cool ronin-like warriors in 1999, but found out they were boring, platitude-laced puppets of an over-stretched legislature. And many hated it.

We expected Anakin to be a true hero, but found out he was a whiny, self-centered emo-kid, and we hated it.

We expected Yoda to be this Buddhist-like figure, but found out he jumped and flipped around like Sonic the Hedgehog - but a Sonic who quit and went into hiding when things got tough, and we cringed.


So yeah. Unlearn what you have learned. Always in motion the future is. The Force doesn't belong to the anybody. Don't focus on your anxieties, keep your concentration here and now where it belongs. The need in front of your nose.

The kids at the park with BB-9 helmets are the cutest!

 

Everything I said is 100% true and BTW, if you think Star Wars (as it exists today) is primarily geared towards "kids" then you are sadly mistaken. The things George Lucas told everyone 40 years ago hardly represents the modern day mission statement.

Uh what now? Since when the heck is toy sales a poor way to gauge public interest?? Merchandising - both in terms of type and quantity - is an superb way to gauge public interest. Not only is SW is on a downward spiral but, as I noted above, the focus is shifting back toward Vintage material moreso than over the past several years.

I am not talking about the Disney theme parks. They have everything there (well, except most of the MCU I suppose) and the entire place is packed with people. Star Wars World will be as well, no doubt.

Yup. Uh huh. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you do. Any other useless anecdotal evidence you wish to contribute?​

 

I’m just going to put these two together here. Maybe they can make friends

 

Since the digital age.

Of course not because a massive theme park based heavily on the new movies does not fit your narrative.

Suuuuurreeee doooooooo. You want a picture of my teaching certificate? Also people waiting in line an hour to take a picture with a character you say no one cares about is a little bit of paradox.

 

And is "the digital age" significantly different this year than it was last year? Or compared to 2017?

I am not comparing merchandising of today to merchandising of 1978. I am looking at the past 5 years of SW merchandising, which is on a downward spiral. To blame it on "The Digital Age" is ridiculous because "The Digital Age" isn't something that popped into existence 6 months ago.

You keep going back to the experience at the Disney Parks, as if the crowd at the Disney Parks is a good sample of the public as a whole. This is probably the biggest of your many logical fallacies.

 

I gave you a clouded, not because I believe your statement is patented untrue, but because in today's competition for a rabid fandom, SW is no longer first in getting kids on board. So even if we don't consider the quality of the ST less than that of the OT, the competition around the ST is far better than that the OT had to deal with. That alone will ensure that there will be a smaller amount of kids who become rabid fans of SW due to the ST.

If I were to be more diplomatic I could say only time will tell and at the very least, it isn't clear that kids are as drawn by the ST then past SW saga's. In the end, one or two franchises rise to the forefront of someone's memory, I really doubt the ST will be that for as large a number of kids as the OT did. To be sure, SW won't die, it will still have a following of kids who grow into adults who look favorably on the ST in the glaring light of nostalgia, but my guess it'll be closer to 70s Battle Star Gallactica than the OT.

This however is just my opinion, but in then end no one knows how well the ST will be regarded down the line for certain. However, just playing the odds (I know, never tell me the odds ), I think it's unlikely SW has lightning strike twice considering the competition. I do not think SW will be seen as the crème of the crop of this generation. The OT was, even the PT stands out to a much different LotR. I don't think Marvel, with it's GotG side, stands that different to SW and actually expands on its appeal.

 

This, in a nutshell. There's a ton of competition out there that SW has never had to contend with. Even the PT didn't have to contend with a big franchise - remember that only AOTC was released the same year as a LOTR film in 2002 (Two Towers). Spider-Man, and X-Men - neither of which really kept up steam after their first 2 installments.

Which begs the question regarding 'fatigue', which seems more prevalent here than with the MCU, which has tons of years-old established characters: Perhaps there really is something to the 3 years between movies?

The age should then include the MCU as the real cultural zeitgeist. Star Wars cannot, and will not, match up to it. Nothing like the MCU has ever existed (Lucas had the only shot in 1983 but preferred to end it with ROTJ). Kids do watch more Netflix and YouTube now more than ever. TLJ certainly didn't help, but mainly by not including any more existing characters, like Ewoks, or give any new outfits (like Hoth Leia - still the best!!!!, and Bespin Luke), but all toy sales across the industry were down last year. (That's an accurate summary of every article on SW toy sales regarding 2018).

The box office for 2017 was also down massively, as everything is, in fact, running up against more competition with everybody's SmartTV and Game of Thrones, etc.

Also, does a Padme or Qui-Gon novel count as 'vintage', as if nostalgia isn't the best bet for any franchise (even Transformers went back to Bumblebee)?
Is a 2nd season of Resistance count as a vintage thing that kids like...I guess? Or does SW just get better the more people obsess over what's already there?

Remember when we hated Ahsoka?

 

This is actually a conversation I had with my best friend. We were talking about the TPM 20th Anniversary figures released at Celebration and feeling sorry for ourselves that E1 - a movie we remember seeing together at midnight on opening night - is now entering "Vintage" status.

The prequels are older now than the OT was when the SE's came out. As far as actors (not characters) go, E8 Luke is older than E4 Obi-Wan and Daniel-San is older than Mr. Miyagi. In other words, just kill me now....

 

OMG....I'm not even gonna google that.

 

No, not at all.

 

Eh, the worst one (2nd) came out in the same year as AOTC. The following and arguably best one comes out a year before ROTS. They overlap a bit but HP doesn't get the massive pop culture following until that 3rd and 4th films.

 

I think you may be slightly misremembering the late 90s. The first movie came on the back of an already irrationally popular book series. The property had an enormous following before the film was released and grew substantially afterward.

This is about as unprovable as it comes, but I’d wager a pretty penny that if you polled any random millennial on which franchise was the most influential for them when they were in that target demo, and they’d likely point to that dork in the glasses. The eight movies they literally grew up with over the course of 10 years.

But what the hell do I know? That was after my time.

 

We live in the era of Game of Thrones that is worldwide acknowledged as the TV show that changed it all
and became the massive success it is, by not fulfilling the audience expectations.

That cannot be problem, per se.

But planning to subvert people expectations is surely a risky move.
That is why is so unusual, and that is why sometimes the result is - more or less - divisive.

But it may not be divisive and controversial. As proved above.

Therefore, I say hands down to those who manage to reach that goal: they are the masters.
The others are surely brave, I give them that.
But if there's not that kind of unanimity, blaming - afterwards - "expectations" it's imo quite childish.