Were "fan expectations" the problem?

The thing with trilogies and series is, people will be inspired to come up with theories. It's what unites fans, we wish to talk about what we have seen and it's fun. Every filmmaker should know that but the audience can't expect the film to please everyone. The moment you expect something to happen a certain way you're programmed to be frustrated and dissapointed in the end. But I wouldn't miss the oportunity to speculate nontherless.

I can't speak for others but for me it wasn't about the lack of background stories what let me down. I know how the marketing works and that most stuff will be handled with comics, books, tv-shows and games when it comes to background stories and deeper knowledge. That's the fanservice for the deep fans who crave for origin stories and such.

For me the pure dissapointment came from how they treated our heroes of the first hour. After TFA I was full of tention how the old crew would see each other again and it literaly was skipped. I wanted to see Luke being Luke and I can't see why he should throw away his fathers lightsaber after he rescued him from the dark side. We had no reunion and no closure for our beloved characters and that was like a hit in the face for me. So I got dissapointed because my expectations how disney would treat my heroes wasn't satisfied. From what I red is that Marvel treated their heroes good in a way of closure - I wished Disney had done the same.

I mean you can build up something new and respect the old heroes and fans at the same time. But all we got was the Last Jedi and it's just sad. The new characters have potential and are fun but it's sad for the old ones.

 

As I outlined earlier in the thread, fans built up these fantasies in their heads about certain elements of the Sequel Trilogy that were introduced in The Force Awakens - ignoring all of the evidence that emerged that should have disabused them of said fantasies - and then attacked The Last Jedi for not fulfilling those fantasies as if the fact that they ignored the evidence that the fulfillment of said fantasies was never "in the cards" is somehow the fault of the filmmakers.

 

That's the thing. I am a random millennial. A large portion of us were already over 13 years old and not reading Potter until it got culturally dominant. I didn't hear about Potter until a 'sequel' hit.

.....

There it is. "I want"

 

Like I also and already stated in my post: I'm fully aware that expectations lead to dissapointment.

 

I do not live in the US, so maybe here things are different.
But... I can tell you that the marketing canpaines for Eurodisney are based on Marvel, not SW.
Even tho there's a section of the park SW dedicated.

In my country, midnight premieres of a movie are not a thing.
Or they never were... until 3 days ago.

I wasn't in a big city, but due an Easter vacation, in the middle of the Sicilian countryside and all the theaters open were fully booked or almost fully booked for special openings made for Endgame.
This - here - is... insane.

The audience were by an overwelming majority teens.

I see Marvel merchandise everywhere 364 days at year. I do not see SW merchandise shortly after a new movie gets realeased.
Due to my husband's job, I can tell you that kids (and their theachers as well) are into Marvel. Those intrested in SW are few.

I speak reguararly with people of my age, with younger people and older people about GOT.
I cannot do the same with SW because it's not such a common thing to meet people that care and know so much about it.

Does it mean that SW is done, dead or doom?

I don't think so.

But I must admit is not "the" pop phenomenon of this particularly moment.

 

couldn't agree more. @Trevor and i are probably diametrically opposed on much of ST even though we belong to the same generation of the fandom.
the difference, i think, is that i went to see TFA with only one expectation: that i would probably be disappointed.
i was so far removed from the fandom in 2015, i didn't even know the legacy characters were coming back.

i'm thrilled they did, of course, but i'm much more excited about the new generation. : D

 

the great irony of that analogy is that no matter what color that bike was.. there probably would have been the same number of kids unhappy with it.

Before TFA released, i wanted (with all my heart) for Luke to have a family. I wanted this because i always felt that family had become more important to him than all the silly jedi, sith and war stuff. TFA & TLJ surprised & challenged me, and i now crave that feeling more than any needs or wishes i had for Star Wars.

I guess my analogy is different. I'm not gonna ask for a bike..i'm just excited about Christmas. I wonder what we're all gonna get

 

As an older Millennial that hates getting lumped into bad generalization the younger Millennials, I for one can say I hated the HP series. I never read the books or got into the movies. A lot of my class mates did though. SW and LOTR were my go to movies at that time.

 

You have to blame a lot of it on the digital age. Kids play a great deal more video games then we did. That isnt the only blame. I do blame Disney and old fans, but not the movies. I have mentioned this many times before. Look at the toys from TFA, RO, TLJ and Solo. Notice anything? Nearly all the ships are the same as the OT. You have X-Wings, Tie Fighters, Millennium Falcon. TLJ added A-Wings, Tie Silencer, and Resistance Bombers. Not nearly the change that came from ANH to ESB and then again with ROTJ. The key is the merchandise is indeed stale. Compare that the PT era where many new ships that kids wanted toys of were added each movie. Who shoulders that blame? Well the fans that really wanted the nostalgia factor. I guarantee you if EP9 introduces new designs you will see sales go up again. As for your believe that merchandise is returning to nostalgia that is true, but that happened because of the movies not introducing much in the way of new designs.

 

there you have it: three fans from the same generation coming at the ST with completely different mindsets and reacting to it in completely different ways.
but people keep on making generalizations with zero statistical evidence as if they are facts. XD

 

Just finished up a twitter conversation with someone on just this. Focused on Luke and how he was setup in TFA. Back in 2015 it was clear to me Luke ran away. He didnt go searching for some Jedi Super Power to take out Snoke and Kylo. He ran away. I mean what makes more sense.

Luke blames himself for Ben becoming Kylo. So he deletes a portion of a map that he had R2 carrying to the 1st Jedi Temple then he runs away in shame. Ben father in grief takes off and leaves his life going back to his old ways because he believes he failed as a father and husband. As the First Order grows in power Leia who has always been the strong one fights and she asks people to help find Luke so they can try to bring him back.

Or

Luke looses Ben and in an effort to turn him back and beat Snoke he goes to find the 1st Jedi temple believing it has the key. He chooses to not tell his sister and best friend just exactly where he is going. Instead he takes piece of a map and hides it somewhere in the galaxy to create a galactic scavenger hunt between the Resistance and the First Order so they can come and either find him or destroy him.

If he wanted Leia to be able to find him in a galaxy with near instant communications why not just give her his cell phone number.

 

In other words: "Do you think I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy for no reason at all?"

 

Let's put it this way: In both the OT as the prequels there was lot's of story development throughout the episodes. The main characters had to face hardship and relatable obstacles. After TLJ were are still in the dark on most things; why is Rey so powerful? Who is she? What is Kylo Renns deal or Snoke? etc etc. Whats up with the Resistance? Then consider how much of TLJ spend on non sensical side stories that didnt move the plot forward in an interesting or understandable way, it's not hard to understand people are not feeling the movie. Just compare Luke's motivations to go on the journey with Ben or how Luke met Yoda and all the trials he faced. At each moment we understood the how, why and what of the story presented. We understood why Luke was reckless, we understood why Yoda was toying with him, even cryptic Ben made his thoughts clear in Empire with his 'certain point of view'. No such things with the current trilogy, we are litterly stumbeling in the dark on the most important aspects of the character motivations as we really havent experienced them. I'm not saying TFA & TLJ doenst have any development or insight in to the characters, but its very superficial to say the least. Here is a comparison:

Luke:
- Hates is boring life -> relatable and understandable through the story as a big chunk of story is used to flesh this out.
- Only is intrigued by the droid as the show him a glimps of something exciting.
- Only when his aunt and uncle are massacred, he goes on his journey.
- We learn so much about his character because we know his backstory, see interactions with others (droids, Han, Ben) and really get a real understanding of him)
This is only the beginning of Ep. 4..each act of the film and of Empire, each twist and turn Luke grows and gains meaningful insight as does the viewer.
Not so much with Rey. So we may like her, but to say we are invested in her as a character..no not really. Rey is along for the ride with her super powers. And it's not much better regarding the other characters. So saying it's about fan expectations isnt all of the picture. Just wanting an interesting story to get invested in, should be mandatory, if you have a trilogy s a canvas to tell said story.

 

"I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise."

“I’m Rey.”

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. It's the only way to become what you're meant to be."

"Hope lives in the galaxy. I thought you would be the one to snuff it out."
"Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you."

"General Leia Organa's band of Resistance fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight."

 

Rey:
-Yearns and waits for her family to return. Note how she has tick marks on wall of where she lives marking all the days her family has been gone.
-Only wants to help Finn escape and get BB8 to Resistance, but yearns to return to Jakku for her family.
-She receives a shock to her system when she has the vision and conversation with Maz. Yet she cant break from returning to her family on Jakku. She cant break free.
-Only when her new friends are under attack does she step in and reverse returning to Jakku. Still she yearns to know who she really is.
-We learn so much about her character because of her abandonment and he yearning to have her parent return to her. She yearns to not be rejected.

Her powers are just a plot device to move the story forward. Acting like we should see a force power meter on the bottom the screen showing Rey progression is not good story telling. Great for video games, not for a movie that is much more then about combat.

 

Out of curiosity, for those that enjoyed ‘Avengers : End Game’, but didn’t care for TLJ (obviously no specifics), would you say your personal expectations were largely met or subverted with that movie?

 

Not sure on what connection you're trying to make with this since Marvel and SW is an apple to orange comparison. But as some who thinks TLJ is an okay movie I personally enjoyed End Game and it met my expectation and there was couple things I didn't see coming.

Spoiler

I had a strong feeling that Ironman was going to die, so I wasn't too surprised when he actually died but still was in shocked. I honestly thought Captain America was going to die but having him becoming an old man and retire was something I didn't expect. That was something I didn't see coming.

Overall, as someone who didn't read comics and only comic knowledge I have are from the movies, I personally was happy with End Game and previous movies. Can't wait to see whats the future of Marvel. Wish we could get 3 SW movies in a year, i'll rather have that than a book and or a comic.

 

I am not a super marvel fan.
I think that end game is pretty much the ROTJ of the MCU.
And I can understand that fans love it just because of this.
Because of the payoff.
It’s a simple as that.
Personally, however, I think that Infinity War is a better movie, for many reasons.
It’s a far more difficult task - for instance- to put together so many story lines and characters.
And that finale...
But like I said, twists and surprises cannot be per se the problem.
The point is only if they serve the story or the surprise per se.
IW did the former.
The heroes failed and they did it big time.
But they were still the heroes (my favorite scene is that of Cap. staring at Thanos while his shield gets broken) and the bad guy - and a nuanced one - was still a compelling bad guy.
EG’s success is built up on a decade of successful movies and on the shoulders of its direct precedecessor, that imo is the real masterpiece of the genre.

 

Spoiler: GAME OF THRONES SPOILERS

Final warning, huge Game of Thrones spoilers here. Not just Star Wars!


Honestly, the new GOT episode seems to have a ton in common with the Throne Room scene to me, almost intentionally so. Arya's copying of Rey's signature move, Jamie and Brienne channeling Kylo and Rey's guard fight, and of course the big bad going down in a huge surprise twist in his moment of triumph.

And, like TLJ, it seems like a lot of the same people are mad.

Look, I've seen a lot of people claim that the Night King was done dirty, that he had nothing to do with Arya's plot, that Jon should've been the one to do it, that Arya is somehow a "Mary Sue"...

And I think some of those can probably be chalked up to good old fashioned "fan expectations" making people place far too much importance on the Night King's role in this series' endgame.

But, much like TLJ, seems like there's a lot of anti-"SJW" sentiment here. By the way, I find the idea of "SJW" being a bad thing ridiculous among fandoms like Star Wars and LOTR, where we literally root for heroes that fight for justice social and otherwise.

So I guess be mindful of spoilers here, but did anyone else share these feelings of parallel?