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Were "fan expectations" the problem?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jaxxon, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. FrankC

    FrankC Clone

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    The whole movie was built around this to happen. That was the whole point of seeing a weak and feeble Luke on the island. We were suppose to see the coward luke redeem himself - for him to walk out and unleash the full power of the force, with a wave of his hand, to crush AT-AT's like tin cans. This was Luke's moment to show the full power of a jedi master. The whole movie set this up to happen and....our expectations got subverted! Surprise hahah. Nope, let's not show you any of that cool stuff, let's just make it a force projection and have Luke die in the most pathetic, embarrassing and insulting way possible.


    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2019 ---
    Kylo killing him in combat or him dying in some pathetic, weak way like astral projecting?!? His astral projection took away any emotion or weight from the scene. This could have been the moment where we saw the real luke come back to us, to unleash the full power of a jedi master! It would have been like the matrix when neo realizes he was the one. We could have seen Luke just devastating armies - we realize that he hid away on the island not because he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep (a very luke thing to do..) but because he was scared about how much power he had. This was the moment ALL luke fans wanted to see! That's what we were waiting for the whole movie...and then we got the most insulting and shameful ended you could possibly think up!


    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2019 ---
    Why would it be a silly thing to say? Which parts of the movie didn't you like? Can you think of a better way of writing them? A story is just a number of choices the characters make - there's no way I could direct the movie better than rian or to organize a team to get the movie made. But I'm 100% sure I could have wrote a better story than the last jedi. I could have tweaked the last jedi and made it 100% better. Most people could. All rian did was subvert expectations- if he didn't subvert them and just delivered on his set ups, the movie would be better!
     
    #521 FrankC, Dec 20, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2019
  2. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebel Trooper

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    You saying that Kylo killing, solidifying his hatred over Luke, would be better over the projection, which you claim as “weak” and “pathetic” tells me everything, but, for fun...

    “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never attack.”

    honestly, Luke walking out there and trashing the FO would’ve ruined the trilogy for a few reasons.
    1) there would be no real conflict in 9. Luke would beat the main FO leadership, what could challenge him?
    2) If Kylo killed Luke, it’d cement him further in the Dark because of his hatred of Luke. Luke denied him that.
    3) That’d break Luke’s character more than anything Rian did (if you believe he did, which I don’t). Luke’s greatest victory wasn’t in blowing stuff up, but in refusing to kill Vader when he was down, In resisting the Emperor. Walking out and destroying the enemy? That’d be a Vader thing. Luke? Perfectly Luke. As a Luke fan, this was the perfect culmination. Not Luke being an utter god against the FO, which, like I said, would break his character far more if he went to fight and destroy them.

    the idea that you claim the projection is weak is sad. It was an incredibly straining effort, that he likely could have only achieved on that cliff. And he did it to be able to talk to his nephew, to apologize, which is a difficult thing for anyone to do.

    if you really think mark and rian hated each other, maybe you should actually watch some of the interviews after the film, where he praises Rian, Rian praises Mark. They had a disagreement over a character *at the start*, but they didn’t hate each other. Far from it.

    Edit: I’m gonna recommend checking out the video linked on the page before. It’s a recent review of stuff in TLJ, and if I remember correctly even brings up later interviews with Mark and Rian. Also note that in “The Director and the Jedi” behind the scenes, Mark explains his whole “disagree with everything you’ve done but I’m still gonna make your vision happen”, and adds on “it’s not my character. He belongs to the writers of the story and I’m just rented him.”
     
    #522 Iotatheta, Dec 20, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2019
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  3. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    When debating what makes a good or bad film, I would advise that you don't just go with other people's ratings and muh shekels, instead think of what it meant for you as an individual and break it down into its raw components. As there are plenty of popular films that did not resonate well with me personally and there are plenty of films that are of quality that did not do so well commercially either because of marketing or other factors.

    Even if you don't like this film, it may be still worth exploring the philosophical discussions and debates surrounding the themes and ideas explored. To me, this is more fun than watching films at face value.

    For example, Luke in TLJ perfectly exemplifies the religion of Jainism, an old belief system characterised by an interest in the welfare of all living things and the universe at large, an ascetic approach to material possessions, the abandonment of ritual, domestic and social action and the pursuit of enlightenment to escape the constant cycle of death and rebirth.

    There are also references to Christianity with Luke Skywalker being like Jesus rejecting previously held orthodoxies and this rejection being a disruptive influence not readily welcomed by his contemporaries. The burning of the tree on Ahch-To being similar to the destruction of the Hebrew temple after Christ's death.

    Here is something funny to watch as you read this missive.
     
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