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What Could Have Improved Canto Bight?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by HothLeia, Jan 15, 2018.

?

What could have improved Canto Bight?

  1. I'd like to see more of the extras/aliens/clientele of Canto

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. Finn meets Rose at CB and rescues her from the villains running the casino

    3 vote(s)
    5.4%
  3. No space horses.

    7 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Remove Rose's exposition and replace with continued angst over sister...

    6 vote(s)
    10.7%
  5. Remove the less-than-subtle "messages".

    8 vote(s)
    14.3%
  6. Finn and Rose save the kids instead of/with the space horse things.

    4 vote(s)
    7.1%
  7. Rose has absolutely no connection to CB and discovers its evils with the audience

    4 vote(s)
    7.1%
  8. Cameo by secondary character from the OT

    5 vote(s)
    8.9%
  9. Show some "good" Canto Bight characters as well as the "bad"-make it more neural

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  10. Other (in comments)

    15 vote(s)
    26.8%
  1. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Finn had already rejected the FO in TFA. From how he became part of the FO (kidnapped as a child) and the actions he witnessed he fled the FO. His choice now was DJ or Resistance. It wasn't until he understood through what he saw with DJ, what Rose had gone through and the people at the Canto Bight society did he understand what choosing to just run away really meant. So it made him think and choose not to be someone in the middle.

    Canto Bight sequence has a total of 11 minutes screen time.
     
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  2. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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  3. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Its his life and to anyone your own life is personal
     
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  4. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Program Note: Han Solo was someone in the middle; he turned out ok
    Program Note: Finn saw what happened to the Republic in TFA when they chose not to actively fight the FO

    The only thing that Canto Bight adds to Finn's character profile is a "Do-Loop". It's another lap around the track to avoid actually having to develop him IMO.
     
  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Program note: Han was a guy playing the middle then made a choice to fight for good. His decision was made in the first movie because there was no second movie then. Everyone has an arc because they had too. Finn saw what happened but still didn't want to be in the middle of a war...again. He had just gained freedom and didn't want to give it up. In TLJ is forced to decide between three options: First Order, DJ or the Resistance.
    He already rejected the FO in TFA so that's out. It's between DJ (and the middle) or the Resistance. He sees what DJ does when he betrays Rose and himself. That moment is defining for Finn as a character. He knows his path is with the good then. Canto Bight (albeit somewhat heavy handily) sets the ground for Finn's choice. He has to experience the three choices before deciding.

    Im not saying anyone has to like it but there is clear development with Finn from TFA to TLJ.
     
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  6. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    For me, the biggest problem with Canto Bight is that it ends up being almost irrelevant to the story. They try to get the codebreaker, and they failed. They got a backup codebreaker, and not only did this plan fail, but he reveals critical information to the First Order. In other words, Finn and Rose would’ve been better off just staring at a wall.

    The movie places substantial focus on devising and explaining a plan to disable the tracking system, and ultimately the whole thing goes nowhere.

    The only result of Canto Bight that could possibly be called a positive for the Resistance was the defeat of Phasma, but the Resistance also incurred heavy casualties of their own.
     
    #106 SegNerd, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  7. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    It's supposed to work into the theme: learning from failure.
     
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  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    That’s an interesting idea - but what did they learn?
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Dont trust someone you meet in jail.
    Not everyone is pure of heart.
    Half-cocked heroic plans don't always work (that's for us mostly)
     
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  10. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    “I've dealt with plenty of trigger happy flyboys like you. You are impulsive. Dangerous. And the last thing we need right now. So stick to your post and follow my orders.”

    If he’d done that, stuck to his post, and not acted like an impulsively dangerous trigger-happy flyboy, then everything would have worked out alright. He’d made the impetuously wrong move (again) and gotten people killed (again). It’s a failure Poe needed to learn from and presumably does.

    Finn: We should help him, let's go.
    Poe: No wait. Wait.
     
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  11. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    So why would he throw away his life for people he just met? The man spent his entire life serving the FO, and the only choice he has when he wakes up is to join the Resistance?
    The problem is there is nothing in it personally for him. He is only fighting because it's the right thing to do. Last I checked he isn't Superman. Most people don't fight for the reasons you give, and no one would expect anyone to fight for the other side after spending their entire life serving the other. Even soldiers get a leave of absence. Finn hasn't been given 24 hours to breathe. There are always other choices. Your own. TLJ portrays Finn's only role with the Resistance is become another soldier. Sorry, but that makes the Resistance just as bad as the FO. To be honest. There wasn't that much different between Rose and Phasma. Phasma shows no compassion for her soldiers, and Rose showed no compassion for what Finn has been going through his whole life.
     
  12. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Um. The whole point of Rose saving Finn on Crait IS because she has compassion for him.

    Although she is pleased he decided to join the Resistance, she didn't want him throwing his life away willy nilly, if they could regroup and come up with a better plan, that doesnt involve him throwing himself at the laser canon of doom.
     
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  13. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I'm not sure if DJ represents "the middle". He doesn't represent some governing ideology that sat between the peaceful coexistence pursued by the Republic and the order and disciplined pursued by the First Order, DJ represents opportunism... all of Canto Bight does. That is the story and lesson of Canto Bight. It's what they all have in common, DJ, the elite on Canto... they'll do business with anyone for the right price. They are indifferent to whether or not that commerce will happen in a Galaxy at peace, with systems engaged in trade and abiding treaties and laws, or if commercial transactions will be processed principally within a fascist regime with its foot on the neck of oppressed and suffering people. Rejecting Canto Bight and DJ logically should have no impact on joining the Resistance - the suggestion that it should push Finn further in the Resistance's column is EXACTLY the flaw with his story dynamics (and Rian's logic). It's like saying he gets from point A to C, by going through -4. I'm not debating the existence of development (which is a really low bar to be ascribing to anyway), I'm debating the quality of it.
     
  14. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    DJ full name is Dont Join. He represents not the middle in a political sense like you imply, but literally not getting involved. Which is basically what Finn had planned to do once Rey was safe.
     
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  15. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    It's not Rose's place to tell someone she doesn't know how to do anything. She showed absolutely no compassion for him. When did she tell him we could find out where you came from? Did she ask him what does he want for his life now that he is free from the FO? All she wanted of him is the same as a guard dog. Fight for someone else. Finn the man doesn't matter. Only him helping the Resistance matters which makes him just as faceless as he was with the FO. He's carrying around a name that's not his, but was given to him. What else do we know about him?
     
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  16. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    She knows what Finn wants now that he left the FO. "To keep Rey safe." He keeps mentioning it over and over.

    What she wants him to do though, is get passed that, because Rey has her own wants, needs and journey of self discovery to do.


    And dude. You keep going on about Finn's family origins. But the story has shown he doesn't care about that (both in TFA and in TLJ) unlike Rey.


    If Finn doesn't care why should the audience. There's no investment in Finn's birth origins because there's nothing there.

    Maybe they'll do a comic or something about it one day. But you're not going to get it in the movies.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    What @KeithF1138 said re: the middle.
    DJ is morally gray. He's neither a FO fascist nor a Rebellious hero. He's morally out for what is best for DJ.

    Finn rejects the FO in TFA.
    He is out for what he sees as best for himself. (Saving Rey and getting as far as possible). Call this A. So in TFA his story isn't about him growing it's about establishing him. It's about him being capable of heroics despite his rejection of partaking in this war. We are just used to this being the end of it and they become full fledged good guys in #2.

    In the start of TLJ he is still on A. Instead of just joining the Resistance, like Han and the rebels in ESB, he is still looking to get Rey and himself far away. What Canto Bight ultimately shows him is that there are a group of people who play the middle and they are often worse or as bad as the FO. Whether it's the war profiteering or DJ turning on he and Rose. He gets to see the final player and option in his path. Don't Join. This is B. Again, you don't have to like it but it's there and denying it does no service to discussion of the film.

    Once you get onto the ship headed toward Snoke's ship you still get a sense of conflict in Finn when DJ shows him that the owner of their craft deals to both sides. He's confused. Then DJ finally turns on him and sells them out after he makes his "heroic" turn and opens the door and gives Rose her medal back. Star Wars (and other popular media) has us largely conditioned to believe this is it, DJ is now a good guy. But no, it's flipped. Han came back to save Luke. DJ ratted them out and basically doomed the Resistance. All those people will die because DJ was just looking out for DJ. Finn confronts Phasma in their escape. She says he was always scum. "Rebel Scum". Now he's chosen a side that isn't "save Rey and get far away." We have reached C.
     
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  18. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    And I see why the film focused on that aspect with Finn (as opposed to previous heroes like you mentioned with Han) for two reasons:

    1. TLJ happens right after TFA

    2. Unlike every other character in TFA, who gets epilogues and contemplation offscreen.

    Finn is put comatose at TFA's climax and wakes up in the middle of TLJ's beginning.
     
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  19. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    I go on about it, because to think a person wouldn't show any concern from where they came from is fantasy on the writers part. Complete insecure fantasy.
    The writers wrote Finn to think about Rey, but any writer with half a brain would have written him to have conflicts of his own or I guess that's too hard for a writer to multi-task.

    I don't care what Rose wants. She has no bearing on his life and who the hell is she to think she knows what's best for him? Some serious arrogance with that statement. This is why this trilogy sucks. Half ass stories are never interesting, and guess what. Place all your focus on Rey and Kylo and watch this franchise drop like the titanic. Instead of wanting a fulfilling story. Some of you consistently insist on mediocrity. No wonder Hollywood is failing. Your ideas aren't bringing anyone to the theater.
     
  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    “I was taken from a family I'll never know.” Finn accepts it as his reality that finding out about his past isn’t possible. He also fully believed that surviving a fight with the FO was impossible too though. So, he might change his mind on this also. At any rate, I doubt his character is done evolving at this point.
     
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