What Could Have Improved Canto Bight?

Start by not having their plan foiled for a parking ticket. Then not have them be rescued by BB-8Machina because he single handedly tied up a half dozen guards, and stole a ship. Then have them not shack up with the first codebreaker they come across, even though they went to that planet specifically, to find a specific codebreaker, because Maz told them the job they wanted done took very special talent, and only he could help them. Then not have the guy's name be DJ because it stands for "Don't Join". That's so unbelievably corny and inauthentic. And lastly, don't have Rose lament the animals until she takes the reigns off one, as if that somehow accomplishes something, since the animal will be picked up 2 minutes after they leave.

Just better writing in general would have saved it. The premise wasn't bad. Find a codebreaker to get onto the ship undetected. But then dumb stuff kept happening while they were there.

 

Finn already demonstrated that he wasn't merely loyal to himself, his safety, and best interest in TFA. To assert that DJ is an extreme representation of Finn's drivers in TFA would only be applicable during the escape sequence from the Finalizer at the very beginning of the movie. This is NOT where Finn ends TFA. And here is where I think we are having a gap in the communication. You are reading back a sequence of plot driven events, and the plot driven nature is my criticism. Finn changes not because it's consistent with his development in TFA, or consistent with general human behavior, but because this is the story that Rian chose to write and the direction he chose to take him. And thus they are not bound to be logical, organic, and intuitive (and they're not). Finn sees that DJ is an opportunist, he can choose not to be an opportunist, and NONE of that requires him to join the Resistance or the FO (or to even consider them as possibilities). These are two different decisions.

Which means he was not aligned to any faction following the OT, which is proof that not picking a faction does not inherently lead to moral decay. You can fight along side a group without joining. But in Rian's world, Finn MUST choose the Resistance, not because it's consistent with established metadata, not because it's intuitive, but because the plot demands it. And that is trash writing to me.

Yes, he went from having something to fight for, to having something else to fight for. And he arrives at this station (per the movie) by deciding he doesn't want to be DJ and co-opting Rose's life experience. Finn's own life experience dealing with the Galactic Junta? Irrelevant. After a life time of having his choices determined by others, he breaks free of the FO... just to have his choices determined by others LOL.

Not arguing their existence, arguing their quality, logical coherence, originality, and validity.

And accordingly you could argue the midichlorians were a horrible concept, poorly handled, and disruptive to the general lore, and no one would accuse you of saying they don't exist. Your critique would be implicit acknowledgement that they did exist. I think the same applies here.

 

Correct, he cares about *one* other person in the entire galaxy. Stupendous. His motives are still essentially the same though: get away from the First Order . . . and bring Rey along if he can. He cares about her because he involved her. He’s responsible. She was only in the situation she was in because he convinced her to under the false pretense of a noble mission. Otherwise, his character remains the same. That’s development, but not a lot.

That’s where TLJ starts him, “This fleet is doomed...I've gotta get this beacon very far away from here.” IOW: have fun getting yourselves killed fighting an unbeatable enemy. I’m getting out of here. Which is his same mindset in TFA "There is no fighting against the First Order. Not one we can win...We all need to run...Rey, come with me." He begins that story in the same place as where we left him. What happens next is the natural progression of that arc.

That’s irrelevant. Finn didn’t have some reversal of philosophy in TFA, he’s still approaching his situation from the same state of mind. He sees a version of that reflected back at him with DJ. A version that shows him exactly what he doesn’t want to become. Because that’s not who Finn is.

The Finn we’re introduced to in TFA saw (what he thought was) a defenseless girl being attacked by thugs. Dehydrated and exhausted, his instinct was to come to her aide. To protect her. That’s who Finn is. He doesn’t want to mow down innocent people based on senseless orders. He wants to protect them, he wants to fight for them. But he doesn’t believe he can. The opposition is too great. He can only protect himself and the people close to him. His progression in TLJ is overcoming that state of defeatism. To become a protector regardless of the odds “Escape? He's one man against an army. We have to help him, we have to fight.” That’s who Finn is at the end of TLJ.

Finn has a defined character arc between TFA and TLJ. A decently organic one. One is an extension of the other. I personally believe it was tremendously underserved in that movie though. It could have been handled a great deal better. I think most of the story elements could have been handled better in that movie. It’s a C+ of a film to me. But the bones are there. The core pieces are there.

This is like comparing giving a homeless guy a dollar to going to work for a charity. Yeah, it’s sort of the same thing, but I don’t think you’re appreciating the scale and level of commitment here.

What “experiences” does Finn have though? His outlook on the galaxy has been grotesquely skewed. He doesn’t have a frame of reference for what life is actually like. All he knows is what the FO wanted him to. He needed a guide to show him what’s really going on. That was the point of Rose’s heaviest of hands “look closer” line.

You do realize Han’s position at the start is the unfavorable one, right? That his journey in TFA is in returning to the Han we knew from the OT? The one who was invested, who did give a damn, who did pick a side? Han starts TFA in a morally negative area and has to progress to a virtuous state.

If there’s a particular thing you want to accomplish, and a group exists in order to fulfill that same goal, what exactly is the problem with joining them? Finn is done with running from the FO. He wants to fight them and defend the defenseless. That’s why the Resistance was formed.

 

We don't know what experiences Finn has had, but taking the experience of someone else and applying it yourself is rather stupid. A person that doesn't know how to think for themselves does that. I can't think of any movie where the lead character's motivations to do something is based off a supporting character in the second movie.

You also know Harrison Ford also wanted the character killed off, because it no longer served a purpose. Then Lucas films decides to do a weaker version with Finn, and you wonder why people are complaining. Finn showing concern for a galaxy that did nothing for him is wishful thinking. Tell me. What would you do it you were in Finn's shoes? Would you join the Resistance and risk losing your life or would you at least try to have a life first?

As far as we can tell. The galaxy is fine. The people on Canto Bight were gambling, and no one across the galaxy responded to Leia's call, so why did Finn join the Resistance? No one else believes in it, so why should he?

Finn has been written from the perspective of a person with serious insecurity issues. TLJ was written that way. Rian's afraid of Luke, so keep him physically away from Kylo. Rian is afraid of Snoke, so have Kylo kill him off in the bitchiest of ways in order to make a weaker character appear stronger. Everything about this movie was written from a standpoint of fear instead of wonder.

 

Well, I'm not a fictional character in an action/adventure series. I certainly hope my personal heroics aren't the benchmark for this franchise. That would make for some truly boring storytelling

Because he IS a fictional character in an action/adventure series. He's moral and ethical, even when he had no reason to be. He needed to come to that realization. Finn is a hero, whether he likes it or not.

 

An excellent take on Phasma

 

When was Finn visibly afraid or traumatized by Phasma in this trilogy?

We barely got a blip of FN-2187's because it is pocketed away.

 

Finn said that he was taken as a child to be a stormtrooper, we see him traumatized after the massacre in TFA and he is visibly afraid of her as she approaches him on the ship. As a 2-hour movie goes, that's more then enough.

 

To get back to the main topic, what could have improved Canto Bight was:

• Rian observing and honoring the existing development of Finn
• Using Finn's life experience to be the catalyst to join the Resistance
• Eliminating Resistance ties to Canto Bight beings, just make Canto a clear financial arm of the F.O. (and explaining where they get the capital for such massive equipment)
• Link Canto Bight to FO's Impressment of children soldiers
• If you're going to have Rose tell a story about her life, let it be a lead in for Finn telling a story about his life (he's the one being developed here)
• Being thrown in jail because of a parking violation? Really? Jettison that
• The Codebreaker can still betray them but if all Finn is going to do as his great growth and development is join the Resistance, have him do it before he's betrayed

There were ways to make Canto work, the execution of what they did do was trash

 

What suggestions and what excuses? I don't think your half baked demand makes a lick of sense and since you don't have rational and contextual arguments to are left to make goofy nonsense accusations that make it seem like you have comprehension challenges and to flail around talking about how much money Johnson was paid as if there is some figure that makes your wish fulfillment a must or even plausible no matter how little it makes any internal sense to the context he was given.

 

I don't care what you think. It only matters what I think. Lol I can debate you on every point in this movie and win. Trust me on that.

 

The Delete Button

 

I actually kinda like that idea, especially in that it gives Luke's final stand more of an "audience".

 

I enjoyed Canto Bight alot and still do. I do like TLJ but I still understand why some fans have probs with it and generally understand the flaws they point out, but the Canto Bight stuff that alotta ppl hate I just dont see why. Yeah its a side adventure from the main story and maybe we didn't need to see it all, but if they didnt have Canto Bight then ppl would complain about lack of worldbuilding. Also some ppl think it's an attack on capitalism and find Disney using that narrative as hypocritical, but personally I don't see it as a critique of capitalism. I just think it shows how morally grey reality can be. Some of the ppl on CB are war profiteers as we're told but I don't see how all of them could be. There's gotta be people who got rich by some other venture, so I like to think alot of those aristocrats in the casino are just decent businesspeople who aren't aware of the child slavery going on or the arguably flawed treatment of the race horses.

 

That...would have been freaking BRILLIANT!

 

I liked the casino but not the fathers. The biggest problem with Canto Bight for me was that it hurt the film's pacing. I would have liked less of it and more time with
Luke, Rey, and Kylo.