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SPECULATION What did the Rebellion think of the Jedi?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Lord Skywalker, Jul 17, 2017.

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  1. Lord Skywalker

    Lord Skywalker Rebel Official

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    I re-watched Rogue One and noticed Mon Mothma was very hesitant to mention Obi-Wan or the Jedi to Bail, she had to whisper "your Jedi friend". Do you think the Rebellion may have held some animosity towards the Jedi in some form. Or was she just being discreet to keep Obi-Wan a secret until the time for his and eventually Yoda's and Luke's reveal.
     
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  2. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    I would think she is being discreet, not many at all would know that a Jedi was still alive and for sure they
    wouldn't know it was Obi-Wan. That was a huge secret for his safety and the safety of those that knew.
    Bail and the others were still senators up until this time frame and had to deal with the Empire to
    represent their planets and systems.
    Just to touch on the Rebellion having animosity towards the Jedi, I'm sure some did. They could have blamed the Jedi for failing to protect them from the Empire and the take over, or even believe that the Jedi had turned on them. I would like to believe most would have felt the Jedi were fooled or betrayed just as they were,
    but to their knowledge most if not all the Jedi were killed. Later in the story line none seemed to have any problems with Luke, and he held a high position of leadership in the Rebellion.
     
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  3. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    I concur. At that point there were only 2 known Jedi, OB, and Yoda. They didn't want to put them in jeopardy in case, by some odd chance there was an Imperial spy, or some loud mouth that'll go around starting rumors. Obiwan and Yoda had an advantage if the Empire thought they were dead.
    The rebellion held the jedi in high regards. They did use the term "May the force be with us", as a way of wishing success in battle.
     
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  4. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    I see it like this ... the rebellion is about, what, tens of thousands of folks (hundreds might be pushin' it), come from al manner of places, walks of lives, beliefs. Not all of 'Em are gonna be buyers into the Jedi. Example: Cassian Andor didn't.
    Another was some time after in the...1st Aftermath book- Interlude about a father and 2 sons & the sons arguing & fighting (could be wrong here).
    Han Solo=another... if there be 2or3... there be more.
     
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  5. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    Great point Joshua, I would give a like to your post if I could. Ruralfarmboy also has good info and points on the subject, I can't wait till I can like post.
    Something else to point out would be Luke had to be a positive influence to those who where on the line or worried about the Jedi. He was a hero to the rebellion and
    he did so by leading by example. He was honest, loyal, and led people into battles, the young Jedi was brave but showed he cared about the Rebellion and I would assume was the poster boy for what the Jedi stood for in the eyes of those around him. Those kind of actions spread around and as time moved on I believe he was more of a positive role model for the Jedi in the eyes of people in the Rebellion.
     
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  6. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    Most of the Rebellion thought they were all dead, hiding or gone to parts unknown. Many thought Darth Vader was mostly myth and nearly no one knew Emperor Palpatine was a Sith Lord during Luke's time.

    Senator Organa must have told Mon about OB1. I do not think anyone knew about Luke and Leia aside from Bail, OB1 and Yoda. Only Luke ever saw Yoda as far as we know after he went to hide on Dagobah.

    I do not think the Rebellion would have animosity of the old Jedi Order. They probably feel disappointed and wonder how such powerful Force sensitive order were ever defeated.

    Someone like Bail and Mon would likely consider all the things the Jedi did poorly and would not know how badly Sideous was weakening them. Darth Sideous was using the dark side to disconnect Jedi from the force. It started 1000 years before though.

    I think when Anakin turned to the Dark side it did additional damage to the Jedi and their ability to channel and use the force. They were caught flat footed, even Yoda.
     
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  7. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    How did Anakin giving in to evil damaged the Jedi's ability to channel and use the Force?
     
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  8. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel General

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    It would seem that Palpatine spread a lot of lies about the Jedi, beginning with the story of the assassination attempt and justifying Order 66 by saying the Jedi were traitors. And I'm guessing a lot of Imperial Citizens probably swallowed the story hook, line and sinker. I'm guessing a lot of people in the Rebellion probably dismissed it as propaganda considering the source. Palpatine called the Jedi traitors, as were the Rebellion technically. Through various media it would seem people have a lot of different opinions that aren't always black and white. Some people come from Separatist planets who dislike the Jedi because of their part in the war, some probably blame them for failing to stop Palpatine and others just fear/distrust their power.
     
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  9. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    NunbNuts, great point about Palpatine and the lies about the assassination attempt, he also stated the Jedi were the enemy of the Republic/Empire. I think you are correct and agree with your whole post. Great stuff. Would give like and wisdom if I could.
     
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I guess they didn't think much of them when one of them was a traitor.
     
  11. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    One could argue or wonder who's responsible for the mess the Alliance to Restore the Republic felt compelled to clean up.

    Who failed stopping Palpatine when there was still time?

    No, I don't think Alliance members thought well of the Jedi.
     
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  12. ATMachine

    ATMachine Clone Commander

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    They may not have thought well of the Jedi, but it's even less likely they thought much about the Jedi at all. Only Bail Organa and his friends knew Obi-Wan was still alive, and he was the only living Jedi anybody knew about.

    If anything, the Jedi would only have been a memory for most of the Alliance members: an example of what not to do when fighting an evil dictatorship.
     
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  13. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yeah they focused more on winning the war. The jedi couldn't come out of hiding because most of them were killed off so the alliance had to take the stand.
     
  14. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    My Apologies ahead of time, @Grand Master Galen Marek , my friend... but I just gotta do this...

    How does one ( or many, in this case) come outta hidin' when one ( or, again, many in this case) are dead ?

    ...hehe...
     
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  15. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    A few could've survived.
     
  16. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    I'm afraid my position will be the exact opposite of all what has been said above...


    Not only the Rebellion, but in my mind, so was the whole galaxy.
    By the time separatists were fighting against the Republic, the whole galaxy was hoping the Jedi could save her from Evil. They were the Guardians of Peace, and they were sooo powerful!
    But the Jedi failed.
    Worst of all: after their failure, and the treason they faced, they had been declared outlaws. Nobody was there to defend them, nobody. The only camp were the accusers led by Palpatine. Palps told to the Galaxy what he wanted about the Jedi, and the Senate did loudly applause him.
    Back on Earth : remember our leaders, by the 1990's, informing us about Irak and Saddam Hussein and all his alleged mass destruction weapons. Look at the liars we all swallowed, to legitimate the war against Irak. Twenty-five years after, what happens to be the truth? Absolutely zero mass destruction weapons were in Irak, and the actual real true reason for attacking this nation was all about its petrol. We were all deceived. 34 nations united gainst Irak, 34 lying leaders, 34 scorned people.
    So was the Galaxy by the time of episode 3, because treason (and not truth) is the Sith way, and because no more lawyer was there to defend the Jedi Order.

    I'm convinced Mon Mothma doesn't know his name. I'm convinced Bail didn't told her anything about any Jedi still living.
    For an obvious reason : the less persons who know the secret, the better that secret is kept, isn't it?
    In fact, Bail would have been in the camp of the traitors if he had revealed the secret about the remaining Jedi. He just would have betrayed Yoda's confidence.

    Look me in my eyes : are you stating Mon Mothma perfectly knew about the Obiwan and Yoda exile, Mon Mothma willingly kept the secret, and during over 20 years, Mon Mothma was comfortably waiting for the 2 jedi to wake up - more precisely, according to what you Mon Mothma and the whole Rebel Alliance were simply waiting for the time Yoda & Obi would have revealed Luke?
    erm... what about the Dantooine meeting and the whole Rogue One affair, then, if everybody was waiting for the Jedi?
    That cannot be, Lord Skywalker. That cannot be!!! We speak of exile, of hiding, of a son removed from the sight of his father to keep him safe. We do not speak about a long-known prophecy about 2 jedis who would wake up one day and restore the Republic.
    Mon Mothma knowing the truth seems unconsistent to me. I think Mon Mothma did not know anything about the remaining Jedi. In Rogue One she talks Bail about "your friend... the Jedi": "friend" is single, and "the jedi" means "one jedi", not two! Obviously she barely believes there is one Jedi remaining.
    Bail knew them, but according to what Yoda said "into exile we must go", he did not count on them any more. And never, nerver spoke of them to anyone.

    Two known Jedi? by "known Jedi", do you mean "everybody knew about the Jedi" - apart the Empire of course!
    Or rather do you mean "everybody in the Rebellion knew about the Jedi" ?
    What about Rogue One that doesn't mention any living Jedi, but just a remaining old blind force believer monk ?
    Finn Mc Cool : the Jedi were HIDING since episode 3, they were HIDING IN EXILE. It's impossible to state both "the Jedi were hinding in exile" and "there were 2 known Jedi". These 2 sentences contradict each other!
    There were NO KNOWN jedi from any person, apart Bail - who fiercely kept the secret.

    By the time he was an hero in ANH, Luke wasn't a Jedi yet. He even was not yet a padawan or more precisely: a learner of Yoda's teachings.
    I do not believe he was teaching the "jedi way" inside the Rebellion, because nothing in the movie let us think that. No speech, no training with his fellow pilots, nothing. The return of THE jedi intend one only jedi returning.
    Luke followed on his own, his own way down the Jedi path. He never engaged the Rebellion with him, not even his sister. Only Artoo witnessed his training with Yoda, and Artoo was not capable to betray the secret, even to Threepio, who would have remembered nothing about Yoda because of the memory wipe he went trough.

    Must have? Please what makes you state that, and especially, the use of the word must?
    I personnaly state the exact opposite : Bail, speaking about the Jedi, would have betrayed Yoda, who says in episode 3 "the Jedi have to hide and go into exile".
    How can one subscribe to the words "hide" and "exile", and in the same time disclose the truth all around ?
    Otherway, has Bail been mentioned as a traitor, a liar, an untrustworthy person? Of course not. Yoda fully relied on Bail when he was to escape the Senate after his fight against Sidious. Throughout the whole Prequel, Bail is the non-Jedi person closest to the Jedi. He himself did adopt Leia. He cannot be considered as a traitor to the Jedi cause. He cannot have spoken.
    Proof is that in Rogue One, Mon does not know OB1's name. She doesn't neither call him "Obi Wan", nor "Master Kenobi", nor "Ben", only "your friend... the Jedi". That's the proof Bail never told her his name.



    This is clearly what I believe.
    First of all, because treason is THE sith way : Palp betrayed the Neimodians and the whole separatist leaders, Palp betrayed the Republic, Palp implanted a chip in the clone's brains to make them betray the Jedi, Palp betrayed Dooku, Palp betrayed Anakin, Palp betrayed everybody!
    Second, because it's possible: we, earthlings, believed for ten years Saddam Hussein was a terrifying dictator with tons of high destruction arms - it will be revealed later this was a pure liar. Formerly, a certain German leader told the world Jews were less than human - this also will be revealed as a liar. By our times, specists and racists still claim that "niggas" (sorry for this word) are a lower race than the white one - this is still a pure liar.
    The same way we, earthlings, were on the former years, the same way was a whole Galaxy : deceived by mass liars.
    Remember, Sith's aim was born one thousand years before. The goal was to destroy the Jedi. Destroy means a physical way, it also means wipe all the remainings of the Jedi in the collective consciousness, like Threepio's memory had been deleted. That's why Sidious declared them outlaws. Without anyone to defend them, their fate was quickly settled.
    Except Bail, any person in the Galaxy did know about the Jedi, and nobody was still hoping their help. That's my 2 cents. :)
     
    #16 daRinze, Aug 21, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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