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SPOILER What do you think Snoke's role was in this trilogy?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Lord Skywalker, Apr 28, 2019.

?

What was Snoke in all this?

  1. A pawn and vessel for Palpatine

    29.2%
  2. A random powerful dark side user who wanted to finish what the Sith, Palpatine and Vader started

    19.4%
  3. I'm not sure / Other

    51.4%
  1. Lord Skywalker

    Lord Skywalker Rebel Official

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    Since more and more info about Episode IX is coming I think I have a theory.

    In the beginning based on the Aftermath books, we know Palpatine sensed a dark being in the Unknown Regions and maybe could have factored this into his contingency plan. Once he died, based on the novelization of The Last Jedi we know Snoke also collected relics of the Force like Luke did, I think he encountered the DS remains and from there this allowed Palpatine to completely or partially possess Snoke and allowed him to take over the First Order (as we know Snoke out of the blue came in and took control of the First Order). And from there he planned to take control of the galaxy in a new body so groomed Ben Solo as heir to the Skywalkers to train him to become a powerful vessel for Palpatine so he can finish what he potentially planned to do with Anakin Skywalker. And his obsession with finding Luke was to kill any remaining traces of the Jedi Order once and for all.

    What do you guys think?
     
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Movie wise he was an obstacle for Kylo Ren's character journey. In fiction and storytelling there is the concept of villain and oppressor. The villain (Kylo Ren) has to overcome the oppressor (Snoke) to either redeem himself or to become the oppressor himself.

    So you could call Snoke a plot device for a much more interesting character.
     
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  3. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Rebel Official

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    @Lord Skywalker You know, I was just about to create a new thread about the deaths of Snoke and the Emperor, but this seems like as good a place as any:

    No one’s ever really gone. :p:p

    (THE SPECULATION HAS AWOKEN! I wish I hadn’t watched that damn IX teaser. That Emperor reveal at the end almost KILLED ME! Too much hype to handle. It’s got me thinking all sorts of crazy damn things. A big can of worms have been wriggling around inside my obsessive nerd-mind ever since. The biggest one of all—none other than sleazy, slippery Snoke.)

    Similar introductions, apprentices, motivations, characteristics, yada-yada...
    These two haggard oldies, Snoke and the Emperor, were simply made for each other, don't you think?
    A match made in hell, if you will... ❤️❤️

    Among their many similarities was their demise. Yes, both had similar deaths—betrayed by their own apprentice whilst blinded by their own supreme arrogance.

    In some ways, their deaths were mirror images of one another:

    In Return of the Jedi, the Emperor took a Skywalker lightsaber and placed it on his throne.
    [​IMG]

    In The Last Jedi, Snoke did the same exact thing.
    [​IMG]
    They say imitation is the greatest form of flattery. ❤️❤️

    The Emperor was testing Luke.
    Snoke was testing Kylo.
    The Emperor wanted Luke as his new apprentice. This was his first lesson.
    Snoke wanted to complete Kylo's training. This was his final lesson.

    The Emperor was deliberately taunting Luke to strike down his enemy. He wanted to unleash the dark side within him. Even when Luke did exactly what the Emperor told him to do, the Emperor felt under no threat. Vader had his back.

    On the other hand, Snoke wasn’t deliberately taunting Kylo to strike him down. Instead, Snoke was taunting Rey. However, Snoke seemed to do nothing other than provoke Kylo. He lambasted Kylo for his failures, he stole the Skywalker lightsaber (the one Kylo believed belonged to him), he revealed he exploited Kylo’s own weakness to lure and capture Rey, he tortured Rey, he planned to wipe out Luke Skywalker himself. When Rey decided to steal Kylo’s own lightsaber to strike down Snoke, Kylo didn't have Snoke's back.

    You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

    I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.

    Snoke antagonised Kylo far beyond the Emperor ever did to Vader in the OT. The Emperor trusted Vader until his death, he believed Vader to be loyal. Conversely, Snoke never trusted Kylo, was never convinced of his loyalty (at least, until the moment came where he put his own apprentice in the exact same position the Emperor put Vader in).

    At the heart of the Skywalker bloodline, and the drama that has unfolded, we've had these two evil sods manipulating their power for their own wicked benefit.

    Anakin was a Jedi tragically driven to villainy by the tormentor, Sidious.
    Ben was a Jedi tragically driven to villainy by the tormentor, Snoke.
    The most ironic thing was the same act that redeemed Anakin turned Ben into a greater villain.
    Anakin killed Sidious to save Luke, sacrificing his own life.
    Ben killed Snoke to save Rey, benefiting his own evil ambitions.

    Kylo may have defeated his true enemy, yes, but crucially for the wrong reasons. He killed him out of hatred, selfishness and quest for more powerthe path of the dark side. He wanted what was best for himself, not what was best for others.

    But will Kylo learn to defeat his enemies for the right reasons?

    *CRAZY SPECULATION ALERT*
    Rey wasn’t supposed to lift the Skywalker lightsaber. Snoke meticulously placed that lightsaber beside him for Kylo, not Rey.

    **CRAZIER SPECULATION ALERT**
    Ok, scratch that last one.

    What if Snoke returns in a similar fashion as the Emperor—as a haunting presence with evil intent? Yes, a Snoke return is incredibly unlikely, but the return of the Emperor opens up the possibility in my opinion.

    ***FULL-BLOWN CRAZY ALERT***
    What if beyond the conflict between Rey and Kylo, between Jedi and Sith, between Rebels and Empire, beyond all of that, there's been a conflict between the Emperor and Snoke overshadowing everything and the Skywalkers have unfortunately got caught up in all of this mess?

    What if Rey is haunted by the Emperor, whilst Kylo is haunted by Snoke? Both the Emperor and Snoke using their respective pawns, bidding the Dark against the Light, to become the ultimate evil in the galaxy once again?

    Transcending death
    Full-blown crazy all the way!

    We've seen dead Jedi come back as blue ghosts. Maybe Sith can come back. And maybe there's some all-powerful Sith that's controlling whatever the dark side is. We did talk a lot about how the final battle frontier for Jedi might be in the spirit realm. So you have to have a bad guy ghost. — The Art of the Last Jedi

    I think [dark side ghosts] would be interesting. We haven't seen them in the movies as far as I can remember. But that would be really interesting considering the dark side is about self-preservation, trying to find immortality, and the notion that the light side actually got to it through selflessness, what would the dark side version of that look like? There's so much cool [stuff] to think about if you're willing to open your head a little bit! — Rian Johnson

    Forget entirely about Snoke for a second—pfft, that dude surely is dead. We know the Emperor is involved in IX in some capacity. Now, that capacity could be anything, but those quotes above are a pretty big hint at what I'm trying to get at here—self-preservation, dark spirits, spiritual realms, immortality. In the EU, Palpatine had an entire story arc in Dark Empire related to these themes.

    The ability to transcend death is not exclusive to Jedi: Emperor Palpatine and the ancient Sith Lords Marka Ragnos managed to preserve their psyches after their deaths, but it seems their spiritual forms were restricted by certain boundaries and limitations. Palpatine's spirit required cloned bodies to manifest his powers —Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

    Dark spirits were limited by certain boundaries (in current canon, we’ve seen this continue e.g. Lord Momin). They had a focal point of power that anchored them to the physical world. If the Emperor returns in IX as a spirit, his focal point of power would most likely be anchored to the wreckage of the Death Star. In the off-off-chance Snoke's spirit wasn't completely destroyed, where would the focal point of his power be anchored?

    One difference that separated Snoke from the Emperor was Snoke’s telepathic powers. His ability to manipulate the minds of Rey and Kylo together behind their backs was genius. Not only that, but we’ve seen him literally invade Rey’s mind to extract whatever he desired. He even taught that ability to his apprentice.

    If Snoke wanted to preserve his spirit somewhere powerful, there's only one place he would desire...

    I see his mind. I see his every intent.

    Palpatine traveled to Korriban, the hidden world-crypt of the Sith Lords and Palpatine's private place of power. Here among the vaults containing the mortal remains of thousands of Sith lords, Palpatine would ask for the Sith spirit's help in halting the decay of his flesh. Instead the spirits fed him a vision of the infant Anakin Solo. Palpatine would have to transfer his spirit into the child — Star Wars Handbook # 3 - Dark Empire

    Because the clones can only contain his evil for limited time, Palpatine strives to take possession of a strong Jedi body. The unborn Solo child would be that vessel, and Luke Skywalker would aid Palpatine in getting it — Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

    Palpatine also knew that Luke's sister, Leia Organa Solo, would attempt to rescue her brother, and unwittingly hand over that which Palpatine truly desired — Star Wars Handbook # 3 - Dark Empire

    Snoke was literally looking into Kylo’s mind just as he was about to be killed. Snoke preyed on Kylo since he was very young. Snoke was enamoured by the potential of his bloodline. Is it out of the question to suggest Snoke could’ve forged a mind connection in the very moments he was about to die to prevent the obliteration of his own essence?

    Whether Snoke is involved in IX or not (most likely not), the essence of the Emperor would desire the same exact thing—to return to the Living Force by selecting Anakin Solo—I mean, Ben Solo—as his chosen host and become the greatest evil in the galaxy once again.
     
    #3 Fuzzball, Apr 28, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
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  4. Luke's beard

    Luke's beard Rebel Official

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    Damn dude ;);) 1st class nerding ;) now i can get through the next day or so ;);) really good read ;);) ..
     
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  5. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    If i was a prosecutor & the ST was put on trial for not having a planned out arc then Snoke would be my prime Exhibit A.

    It was CLEARLY set up that Snoke was supposed to be an Omnipresent/potent Dark Side Nexus if you read source material & the statements of Andy Serkis.

    Now he is just a pawn?

    Whatever.
     
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  6. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    Honestly i just think he was a guy JJ made up becuase the original trilogy had a misshapen powerful Emperor sort of character so he put one in charge of the 1st order and had only some vague ideas about who he was. Rian thought it would be intresting to kill him so he did.
     
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  7. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    That would be pathetic.
     
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  8. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Grievous just sort of showed up, wasn't in it very long and we didn't get much of a back story, though he showed up in that cartoon movie, until later via the Clone Wars show and later materials. Just because we don't know much about him now, doesn't mean there isn't more to this guy.
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    His importance is greatly diminished even if there is more
     
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  10. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    His role was to cover up the hole left by The Emperor's absence.. which isn't a thing anymore. Thanks Rian! :D
     
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  11. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish Rebel General

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    I believe he was Palpatine's apprentice. A dark side acolyte that Palpatine used to fulfil his contingency from beyond the grave. In exchange Snoke got power and wealth (Why we see Snoke as interested in status symbols and displaying wealth). He's the Count Dooku of the trilogy basically with some differences. He was made the seem like the leader and master while Palpatine was waiting for Snoke to fully turn Ben (complete his training) se he could become a suitable host body for his consciousness. Killing Rey would have done it, his decision to kill Snoke instead has ruined the plan, so Palpatine has moved onto whoever Matt Smith is playing.

    Snoke was a figurehead and not as powerful or wise as he was made to seem, he did go out link a punk after all it could also be possible many of his abilities were being enchanted by palpatine, which is why his form was twisting into something that resembled Palpatine's disfiguration.

    So yeah, a powerful dark side figurehead that had neither the power or cunning to really rule the galaxy or attain the mantle of the sith. His character and sudden appearance makes a lot more sense to me when framed this way, plus as we saw with Count Dooku this type of plan is right up palpatine's alley
     
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  12. TK-3338

    TK-3338 Rebel Commander

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    I don't know what Snoke's role initially was. However, I will say that in my opinion it would've been interested had Snoke been Darth Plaguies. It's very intriguing how Palpatine was curious about the Unknown Regions. I think Snoke's role was to serve as an antagonist following Palpatine's "demise." In short, he's the big bad. We have yet to see Palpatine's role in the upcoming movie. Yet, I believe Snoke was a somewhat ambiguous part of the films in the new trilogy.
     
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  13. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    The best thing they can do (to salvage Snoke as something relevant in this Trilogy) is make him a pawn of The Emperor (no different than Darth Maul, Dooku or Grevious in the PT). Then I can live with his death in TLJ as he is just a stopgap pawn in Palpatine's ultimate plan (however they play it out in TROS.
     
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  14. Angelman

    Angelman Jedi General

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    With the knowledge that Palpatine will return in Ep.IX (and has been meant to from the start), I believe Snoke was a puppet that Palpatine used (somehow) to corrupt Ben Solo into Kylo Ren, and then again as a puppet to facilitate Kylo's complete descent into the Dark Side through Kylo's killing of Snoke. The plan here, I imagine, is for Palpatine to succeed where he failed before, to turn Ben Solo into the irredeemable Vader I hoped I had done with Anakin. (Side note: I'm not saying I believe Kylo will change his name to Darth Vader; I'm just talking analogy here). I don't think Palpatine's failure (& Vader's redemption) was intended from the star (as that would belittle RotJ and the OT), but I believe we're now in Palpatine's contingency territory where he is tried his schemes again via different vessels (i.e. Kylo's inevitable turning against his master now only destroyed Palpatine's puppet, where in the past, Vader's turning against his master destroyed Palpatine himself... Bad 'ol Palpy didn't like that too much, so he set up Snoke to be his fall-guy).

    In other words:
    Palpatine.gif
     
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  15. Angelman

    Angelman Jedi General

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    Hm... I just noticed some weird preposition stuff in my previous post. My 'puter is acting up for some reason... Have anyone sliced it, I wonder? ;) In any case, the sentence should read: The plan here, I imagine, is for Palpatine to succeed where he failed before, to turn Ben Solo into the irredeemable Vader that he once hoped he had done with Anakin. (Not the strongest of sentences, but it at least makes sense now... I think? :p ).
     
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  16. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    So, I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread yet. It's huge. I'm not sure what I think at this point. My question is this...do you really think this was planned the whole time or is this revisionist history to say that it was...I honestly don't know what I think. I lean towards revisionist, but HONESTLY in the end, I just want good Star Wars, so I don't care.
     
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  17. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel General

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    I think Snoke was a vessel for Palpatine's soul and I think it has now been passed on to Rey. Palpatine told Anakin that he knew how to cheat death, that doesn't mean that his body would be reincarnated but perhaps his soul passed on to another body. This could have been passed to Snoke somehow and that's the reason that Snoke's body is decaying.

    When Rey first meets Snoke in the throne room and she is hovering backwards, I think Soke passed Palpatine's soul on to her as he knew Kylo was going to kill him. The reason I think that is, when Snoke tells Kylo to execute Rey, he tells Rey that he can cannot be defeated, he can foresee Kylo's every thought, turning the Lightsaber to strike down his true enemy.

    A crazy theory I know!
     
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  18. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    Another reason Snoke needs a good story is for future books, movies etc...Powerful darkside character that became Supreme leader would make great story fodder exploring his life.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 2, 2019, Original Post Date: May 2, 2019 ---
    Maybe he transferred into that ring.
     
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  19. cassidy

    cassidy Rebel General

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    I think he originally had an important part in the story and arc of the trilogy, but once Rian Johnson was given free reign to do whatever he wanted he just attemped to subvert our expectations by suddenly killing him off with no real thought process behind it.

    Rian Johnson's visual interpretation was also drastically different than what we saw in TFA. He almost doesn't even look like the same chatacter. The writing and story telling involved with this character has been sloppy from every angle (so far). Hopefully JJ can come up with something that ties everything together.
     
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  20. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    He subverted my expectations. I was expecting a great SW Saga film that would blow us away and excite us to want for more. I did not get what I expected. Good Job RJ.
     
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