What do you think Snoke's role was in this trilogy?

First scene of Snoke as a hologram in TFA and I thought:

"I don't believe the rumors are true. He is really a giant!"

Later then when I realized it was just an hologram:

"I am so relieved that this just an hologram!"

 

I entertained the thought that he would turn out to be tiny. Or not even exist.

 

I think part of the problem is that Rey has defeated Kylo twice now. In TFA she won (sure, Kylo was injured, but she still won). In TLJ she essentially won. I mean, she left the ship alive and she had the remains of the lightsaber (or at least the most important part, which I don't get but ok). So is there any doubt that she will win in TROS?

If I'm JJ, I'm thinking there should be some way to tie the films all together. One easy way is to make Palpatine the big bad guy for all of them. Like you I also feel that something feels wrong about it. But also like you I'm willing to hold off and wait till I see the film. It isn't fair to judge it before I see it, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE me some Palpatine.

 

i would posit that Rey's battle with Ren Ben isn't physical, it's psychological/emotional.

• she won the first battle (that seems pretty indisputable ~ she beat him physically, yes, but even more important, she beat him mentally).
• she lost the second battle (yes, she really did: she failed to bring him back from the Dark, which was her goal; the fact of helping the Resistance escape is ancillary to her fight with him).
• i predict the final battle will be a draw; she will recognize that they are equals and two halves of a balance needed to defeat Palpy (or his legacy somehow).

Ren is not the main villain and was never meant to be. he is a child of the Light pulled astray like Anakin was, by a greater evil. the ultimate story will be about defeating that evil. whether Snoke was a pawn of Palpatine or a stepping stone in that regard, i'm sure we'll find out, but i think the real macguffin this whole time has maybe been seeing Ren "rise" to an ultimate power he was never meant to have or hold onto.

 

I think the problem I have with that is how it was depicted in the film, or perhaps not depicted? Immediately afterward Rey is shown looking quite alright. I guess it would make it more... I don't know, powerful or perhaps logical to see her upset that she failed in turning Ben to the light. Instead we never really see that (at least I don't remember it but I've only watched TLJ twice so I might be simply forgetting it).

I REALLY hope you are right on them coming together to defeat Palpatine.

And I agree, I don't think Ren was ever meant to be the main villain. At least not in JJ's mind.

 

Rey is pretending to be all right. we've seen her fall into this coping mechanism time and time again:



she lets the mask fall a little once she's on the Falcon at the very end and asks Leia what they're supposed to do now.
she actually does feel rather down about it all and Leia props her back up.
other than with Ren Ben, this is the only time she's let herself be vulnerable.

i think it's the kind of growth a lot of people don't see because maybe they are looking for big gestures or very obvious physical feats/accomplishments.
so they see her whooping it up in the Falcon and overlook the turmoil in her heart/head.
same with Ren Ben. lots of people just see him pissed off and vengeful in the end.
but it's his final moment in base on Crait that reveals his still-tortured frame of mind.

 

That's why I didn't really want to see Kylo and Rey fight in TROS; she had already beaten him (morally, mentally, physically, spiritually). Why would the third movie end any different? But I guess I should take my own advice and wait and see lol!

I more or less feel the battle was at least a draw here. She may have lost in redeeming Ben, but she still won the conflict around the lightsaber (she woke up first after all, meaning that Kylo's life for a brief time was in her hands, and she spared it) and refused to let the past die. The Jedi live through her, and Luke's death wasn't bitter; it was fulfilling. At least Rey didn't lose because Kylo very much did (lost the lightsaber, lost Rey, lost any chance at getting true vengeance on Luke, etc).

 

I might have to rewatch the film. Thanks for adding to my list of films/books/comics I need to read/watch in the next few months.

 

that's another way of looking at it, though i would argue neither of them really "won" the conflict around the lightsaber since they broke it.

it reminds me very much of a children's book called "It's Mine" about two kids fighting over everything until they get to a beach toy that gets destroyed in the process. it's an apropos comparison: that's precisely what happens here. the first time they fought over the saber it went to Rey possibly not because she was more powerful but because she was right and good. the second time, neither could have it, which seems to indicate they are both wrong in the moment. he's wrong to try to pull her to his side and she's wrong for trying to make him do her bidding as well.

Rey definitely got up and left with the pieces, so there's that, but she's not even sure she can fix it (as evidenced by her forlorn posture at the end).
it's Leia who infers that it can be mended. so it could be called a draw, but it's definitely a draw in which no one actually gets what they want. the next time they face off, i think we might see a win-win scenario. : D

sorry, we're getting off-topic here. to me the point of Snoke and all of this is about the revolution of these two powers which are both ascending.
Snoke represents Ben's past that he needed to overcome as a next step in the same way Rey letting go of her hero worship of Luke represents her own challenge.

 

Yet we know from the trailers and promotion that Rey eventually fixes the lightsaber. So using that metaphor, Rey still wins (the book sounds really helpful for young kids though!).

I like that. Not sure I'm completely on-board with it yet, but I like it.

 

again, i don't know that the restoration of the physical object is really a "win" for her if we're looking at win and lose from a psychological perspective.
she still lost the actual battle she was fighting, which was for Ben.

to use the children's book metaphor again: she got the broken beach toy and can even fix it, but she lost the friend she could have made.
is the "thing" what really counts?

 

The friend she would have made wanted to destroy the toy (or bullied other kids with the toy). The saber is intrinsically linked to Luke's - and by extension, the Jedi's - legacy. Kylo would have tarnished the blade even if he didn't destroy it. Rey rebuilding it is a metaphorical victory.

 

this is the lightsaber that Luke literally threw away to give us a very explicit understanding of the value even he placed on it.

i don't disagree it's a metaphorical victory. but just in the same way Ren's ascendency to Supreme Leader is a victory.
they got what they wanted (what they think they wanted/needed), but what do they have? what is its true value?
and what would actually put an end to the suffering, which, frankly, seems to be both their goal even if they're coming at it from completely polarized angles?

Luke has now twice answered that question by throwing lightsabers away ~ and to the end, he refused to fight with one.
we (and Rey and Ren perhaps?) ascribe victory and jedi legacy to these weapons, but Luke honestly never has.

 

Tiny snoke . I too considered he may not have been real, possibly being controlled by Luke as a puppet.



I still think the giant Snoke concept could've been an interesting surprise. With all of the monstrous beasts in the PT and OT, it would've been a fun mix for a Star Wars character, and something that was simple enough, but hadn't been done before.

 

This is Star Wars. Of course the "thing" is more important than any lesson or whatnot.

/sarcasm

 

What is the importance of Snoke?
Read here

 

Is...is that concept art of Finn with a lightsaber? Or Leia with the lightsaber? Because if that's my boy Finn...

 

Impressive. Most impressive.

 

Well movie wise it sounds like they just added him as a emperor palpitine kinda figure showing that kylo does not own the ENTIRE first order. Hey just a thought yall know more than i do anyway.

 

He is a clone. Especially after seeing this.