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SPECULATION What has me concerned about this movie

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by odmichael, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    This is true. Certain things will be answered through other media. Not really a big fan of this though. Just because I like to see things on the big screen. :)


    This doesn't change the fact that certain questions should be addressed. Many of the questions this movie provided without answers were actually built upon throughout the movie. They introduced new things that threw more questions on. I know we won't get all the answers. But I think it would have been nice to get more.


    In my mind it really would be awkward if Luke did not talk about his past here. I agree with what you say though that it wouldn't take too long to respond to questions such as the ones you've provided.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2016 ---
    If that was their goal with this movie, then I think they failed it because the questions that have came through my head really require more definitive and immediate answers. There is no mystery or wonder to these questions like that of the force.

    That's the thing. I don't think I should be looking at this sequel trilogy the way I looked at the Original Star Wars when I was 3 years old although I recognize that this was Lucasfilm's goal. I also don't think that I should look at this trilogy the way I looked at it when I was watching the prequel trilogy. I should be watching it the way I would watch any movie in the year 2016 or beyond. The cinema has evolved and storytelling has evolved and I don't think we should be looking to the past as a means of moving foreword for the new films. But this is just me.

    We already know she is someone. That isn't a question. But yes, all of these things DO need answers. It strengthens the viewer's connection to these characters by knowing more about them. You can really feel for a character when you understand how they got to the spot they are currently at in their lives. That is why people absolutely love Kylo Ren so much.

    If would be extremely weak storytelling on Lucasfilm's part if Snoke is essentially a clone of palpatine. His character needs to be original and have meaning. It's already been confirmed that he's been around since the PT. Therefore, if we are not told why he was not involved for over 30 years, then can I really value his character?
     
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  2. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    To say cinema has evolved is to say the way things are today is better than it was before. I don't agree with that. The formula of blockbuster films has changed, but I don't think that means there is no value in attempting to make a film in a style that has been left by the wayside, but with a modern feel and approach.

    I think that this need to know everything, to have everything explained has weakened films. I think that is why many modern blockbusters have trouble holding up to the longevity of films like Star Wars. when everything is explained, it is almost always disappointing to some and you stop thinking about it as soon as you leave the theater. A mystery lingers in the mind, an answer quickly exits it. If you under explain, the version you build in your head will always appeal to you, because it is your own.

    I get that some things have to be explained to provide a coherent story. But the things you list above as musts, just aren't for me. That's peripheral knowledge that I can have or have not. If they feel a need to explain where Snoke came from, then that is their choice. But the emperor I knew in the OT was far more frightening than he became after I knew everything about him. My imagination gave me my perfect palpatine back story, and that was weakened when it was eventually shown. Sometimes the magic is in the inferences, and its best not to bog down with too much information.

    But to your other point, under-explaining Snoke doesn't mean he is a clone of palpatine. Behavior, actions, and personality within the films themselves will differentiate him from others. It can be done with backstory, but in my opinion that's a waste of valuable screentime that is better served for a comic of novel. Show me who Snoke is through his words and actions. If his actions are compelling and frightening enough, the audience won't need to know what he was doing during the battle of Endor, or why he wasn't around when the clone wars began.

    I think it is strong, not weak, writing to choose the less wordy path and make these characters and stories shine. Padding it with filler to satisfy fan curiosity is an easy out to build belief in motivations. But I don't care about Kylo Ren because he's Han's son. I care about him, because he is a compelling character built through his actions, dialogue, and Driver's excellent performance. The back story, to me, is unnecessary fluff designed more to inform Han and Leia's parts during limited screentime, than it does for Kylo. Kylo's petulant interrogation of Rey, his monologue to Vader's mask, freaking out and destroying the consoles with his saber are what make him compelling. And I think it would be just as compelling if he wasn't Han and Leia's son or if we didn't know his back story. In some ways, i think the mystery would make it even more interesting.
     
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  3. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    I'm glad they left questions, it leaves intrigue for future episodes.

    But i can see people worry that maybe the answered maybe a let down, i mean now if Rey turns out to be lukes daughter then people will be meh that was obvious, and if she turns out to be some other randoms daughter people will be like why the big build up? so living up to the hype is gonna be an issue.
     
  4. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    I agree with this. But I don't think this is the right approach for Star Wars. I want originality. We got some but not all in a "play-it-safe" approach to the Force Awakens. If Episode VIII provides too much similarity to the Empire Strikes Back, when I look back on the sequel trilogy collectively in 30 years, I will think it's really weak. We need original tales and this is not what we've gotten. I'm pretty confident though that Episode VIII will not mirror Empire as much. :)

    I agree with this. My problem is they've already teased many things. That flashback left too much to the imagination. If you are going to tease these things you really have to provide answers.

    Yeah I really think that some of those points are really important. But perhaps that is the story I've put together in my head. [​IMG]

    Fair enough.

    I completely disagree. Some backstory is critical. It can develop important relationships that affect characters. Kylo being Han and Leia's son made him human - before he even took off his mask. Like Vader, he was just a frightening villain until he was connected to the other characters. When we learn Luke is Vader's son, there is an emotional component to Vader and Luke. We learn Vader's motivation and that's important. Kylo's relationship with Han was critical to the movie and to Kylo's character.
     
  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i think it raises the stakes in a HUGE way, absolutely. but if Kylo Ren wasn't Han and Leia's son, i'd argue he'd still be pretty dang interesting.
     
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  6. Scientific

    Scientific Clone

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    I have absolutely zero concerns about all the unanswered questions. Star Wars is more than films or a "property" its a mythology. Mythologies need to pose questions, in fact I would go on to say mythologies need to pose more questions than give answers. Part of the fun is discussing different points of view. I think wanting everything answered whether in one movie or in the trilogy is a set up for disappointment. Disappointment mostly happens because many things have already been assumed and thus when the person walks into the theater they are expected. However, by having many unanswered questions allows us fans to discuss things and explain "from a certain point of view" which only adds to the appreciation of the mythology. I am perfectly happy just sitting back and waiting to see the story unfold, when the trilogy is all set and done I will look back on it in regards to the mythology and the saga, only then will I feel that i can make a judgment. Right now, just enjoy the ride.
     
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  7. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Don't get me wrong, backstory can work great. And I do think it works well in the context of Ben/Kylo. I just don't think its necessary. I see a very different, but equal in quality film, where we don't find out Kylo is Han's son until a later film. In this case, it would be a bit redundant due to previous saga events, so I know why they make the choice here to differentiate from the OT. But in a vacuum I see it as equal but different. In that case, you meet Kylo Ren, who at first seems pure evil, but slowly reveals himself as a bit of a petulant brat and then later shows a weakness for the light. You start to wonder, what is going on with this guy, an dlet you imagination run wild with ideas of what could have created such a complex villain. Same exact dialogue as TFA, but if you remove the scenes where Han and Leia explain who he is, instead of a tragedy you have a mystery.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the tragedy. I just think its a creative choice that isn't necessarily better or worse than the choice of mystery. Just depends on what they are going for. But, all of Kylo's scenes being exactly the same up until his confrontation with Han, but without the back story, I still think you'd have an excellent and dynamic villain. In this case the back story works only because we have that prior history with the characters to pull from. Unlike Snoke. Kylo works, because we love Han and Leia. If these were all new characters, it plays completely differently. With Snoke, or Finn, or Poe, or Rey....I think it works with or without the extremely detailed back story. I think rough brush strokes in this case show a bit more finesse in the writing.
     
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  8. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    There's a few things that are likely a given:
    - The Resistance will move, and the First Order will be searching for them.
    - Rey is going to fight someone and lose (maybe even lose a limb in the process).
    - End on a huge cliff hangar reveal.

    I don't need to see an asteroid field chase sequence, or a large land battle with walkers... we already saw those 2 repeated in AOTC.

    Realistically, mirroring TESB wouldn't work too well, because TESB already has such a simple plot. Most of TESB's screen time is devoted to character development.
    We've got different characters in this.


    Also, if rumours about filming in Dubrovnik turn out to be true, you probably need not worry about it being too familiar... unless the location ends up being a stand-in for Cloud city.
     
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  9. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    I second this. The way things stand, I fear that Luke Skywalker already has been relegated to a secondary character in the overall franchise, and that started as soon as Han Solo-fanboy Larry Kasdan took on writing duties for TESB. Luke Skywalker had one cohesive movie written for him (ANH), then the adventures of Han Solo took centre stage in TESB and ROTJ, and Vader got a whole trilogy for himself. And now Luke is again competing for significance with a Solo spin-off movie and a Rebel spin-off movie. We have to add all that to the available screentime in the extended franchise that is not dedicated to a development of Luke Skywalker's arc. Which is kind of funny since all of these characters achieved prominence through their connection with Luke.

    I'm scratching my head why TFA chose to dedicate a significant amount of screen time to a Rathtar chase and a lengthy dialogue about what won't-survive-this-movie Han Solo has been up to for the last 30 years. Stuff like that. This is a conscious screentime budget choice made by people who don't miss Luke Skywalker because they are not thinking about the long-term legacy of Star Wars.

    So if even JJ Abrams was furious, I don't blame him. TFA was supposed to make things right for Luke's legacy, and then they messed it up again. With Kasdan finally gone, I hope the people at Lucasfilm have finally understood that the Star Wars franchise is Luke Skywalker's only outlet. Who would want to watch Attack of the Clones and Rogue One more than once if people have forgotten what connects them? I assume that Lucasfilm are aware of that danger by now, and that Luke will be far more prominent in future movies than any old Jedi masters before him.
     
    #29 timonder, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  10. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    i'm sure i've probably said this before.. but what i got from that final scene was:-

    he here comes... it's Luke's time.

    a thought i had was that in the next 2 episodes the dark side users will massively outnumber and overpower the light.
    this would explain why Rey has been 'fast tracked' in terms of picking up force powers. with a bit of training from Luke the pair of them will have a fighting chance against whatever Snoke has up his sleeve.

    Luke Skywalker will be awsome in the upcoming episodes. that's from my heart and not from my head.. still.. fingers crossed.
     
  11. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    Yes! :D
     
  12. Darth Lindb

    Darth Lindb Rebel General

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    I'm not concerned. I like open possibilities. The only reason we have such questions is because we assume that everything is connected. For example, who is Rey's parentage? Does it matter? Only if it is someone who is important like Luke or Kenobi. Will it be? who knows.
     
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  13. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I am excited the prospect of new possibilities as well! I wish Episode VIII was being released this year.

    While catching up with articles leading up to The Force Awakens (things I avoided before the movie came out), I came across this one from StarWarsNewsNet.com (this website), which quotes Kathleen Kennedy:

    Source: Kathleen Kennedy on the Main Focus of the Star Wars Saga Films and More
    http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015...cus-of-the-star-wars-saga-films-and-more.html

    It will be really interesting to see how those connections play out in Episodes VIII and IX.

    JediMasterRobert
     
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  14. Surfinn

    Surfinn Rebelscum

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    Wait.. am I missing something here? TFA was SUPPOSED to introduce more questions than answers; it's the first movie of the trilogy. Were there questions about the ending of ROTJ? Genuinely curious. Unless you're talking about what has happened in between the trilogies, which is clearly being saved because it's integral to the story.

    The OT introduced even MORE questions than TFA and the story was fleshed out well and integrated with the characters in a satisfying way, throughout its trilogy.

    Just because Rey might be Luke's daughter doesn't mean it won't be done in a surprising way or with an additional twist.
     
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  15. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    We're really focusing on what happened between trilogies. The problem I see is that there is so much important information that I think explaining some of it will take up a lot of time in Episodes VIII and IX instead of focusing on other parts of the story.

    I will say though I feel a lot better about things after reading peoples responses :D

    I just don't want them to make it some big reveal if she is Luke's daughter because that really wouldn't be very surprising at this point.
     
  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Maybe instead of being told or anything about Luke Skywalker being her dad, something happens and Rey's "Force-Block" is unblocked and she's horrified and starts resenting Lukr Skywalker .
     
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  17. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    Yeah I would say that would be interesting. Kind of what I am expecting. But not 100% which is at least satisfying.
     
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  18. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I think it would be a nice catalyst for Rey be in turned dark (even for s brief moment) .
     
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  19. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Nope. Mystery, suprise and lacunae. Get used to it. It was there with the originals, and it will be there in the sequels. That is what mythmaking is. The originals did not give you all the answers. Each episode in fact created more questions. That's what stories do, it gives them depth. It gives the story the necessary complexity They don't have to tell you everything, simply because it ruins the story. That's what Star Wars has always done. Why do people want to have everything filled out to them? I'm not waiting on hours long exposition about Han and Leia's marriage problems or the political intricacies of the First Order and the Republic.

    As for Rey, The Force Awakens already had the great reveal that Rey was Luke's daughter. Some people have trouble reading the subtext of those scenes I get it, but the big reveal has already happened.

    Let me put a question to you: What Boba Fett do you like more? The Boba Fett before the prequels, or the Boba Fett after the prequels. I'm in favour of the former. He was mysterious.
     
  20. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Nope as far as we know she isn't Luke's daughter although you're right that we should be reading within the subtexts...remember: in star wars, nothing is certain until it's spelled for us...USUALLY .
     
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