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What if B&W and RJ movies intermingle?

Discussion in 'Benioff & Weiss's Film Series' started by KeithF1138, May 20, 2019.

  1. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    What would you think if Disney went the MCU route and had the B&W and Rian Johnson films intermingle. What I mean by that is B&W start it off with a movie that introduces us to say the early Jedi in the Old Republic. Including the split of the dark and light side users. Then Rian Johnson does a film or 2 focusing on dark side or light side users. While B&W focus on other stories with say the opposite. Then they set it up for a Avengers like film or 2 where all the characters and stores come together.
     
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  2. Apollus08

    Apollus08 Clone Commander

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    I don't care who does it, but someone needs to make a star wars movie that blows people's socks off.

    I'm optimistic that we'll get this VERY soon. Next 3-10 years.
     
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  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    I really hope whatever Star Wars plans it starts to build off whatever they create. Follow what Marvel is doing. Establish new characters and stories and build off of it. Part of my problem with Solo was that they killed Han Solo in TFA and then a few years later gave us a recast Solo in a prequel. There's just not much reason to get excited about that. For general fans one of the reason Marvel movies do well is because they know it ties in somehow. A big reason Captain Marvel made a billion dollars is because people wanted to see her story before Endgame.

    Lucasfilm needs to make these films matter and by tying them together they'll begin to do that.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Trying to be Marvel is the wrong approach though. Warner Bros has tried that and failed twice. Universal has tried that and failed. Fox tried that and failed.

    Marvel is an exception to the rules. It shouldn't be the standard.

    Star Wars should seek out it's own path and way to create it's films.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    I totally disagree. The issue with DC is they're trying to do too much, too fast. It takes years to build these things. The key is creating characters people care about. Marvel's success is that they built off the success of Iron Man.

    Lucasfilm should start small. It's probably why they're reluctant to announce any other projects. The D&D series has to be a success on it's own before they can build stories on top it. Marvel had a few films that were huge successes, but that was okay.

    These Marvel serials aren't a new concept. They're just the only studio doing it correctly so far.
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    There's a reason they're the only studio doing it correctly so far. It's not just creating characters people care about.
    It's insanely difficult to make a good movie. It's beyond fathomable how Marvel has not just made good movies, but a whole series of connected movies where even the worst ones are "solid." People can trash IM2 or Thor 2, but they aren't really THAT bad. Bogged down by trying to set up the universe but still solid flicks.

    They have built a cohesive universe that is filled with characters people care about, in a world people relate to, with stories that people connect with.
    This also means most films have a level of sameness about them. Every so often you get a James Gunn or Taika Waititi in there. But for the most part, the movies feel and look the same. And they have to in order to feel a part of the universe. It's the "Marvel formula" and it really only changes by "phase"

    Personally, I would rather Star Wars do something entirely different. I want Star Wars to stay pushing boundaries and creative story telling. You don't get a movie like TLJ in the MCU.
     
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  7. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    It was a different path. With Star Wars we have trilogies and a saga. We have standalone movies representing back story. The idea was movies taking place in different parts of the galaxy during the same time period, but not directly effecting each other. Then ultimately they converge. Not a trilogy but independent leading to a story that does involve characters and events from the different films.

    What other approaches are their?
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Two separate series allowed to grow and be told as their creators want to be without concern for matching up 10 years down the road.
     
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  9. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    If they are concurrent.
     
  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Yes but they'd still have to match up aesthetically and tonally to work as a crossover like you are describing. That isn't what I want Star Wars to be going forward.

    You could say just the RJ or B&W series do this. But not together.

    That limits the films more than anything else.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    You basically saying DC/Universals botched jobs are proof that only Marvel can do this kind of thing. What Marvel doing isn't that groundbreaking. Movie serials used to be a huge thing in Hollywood. Indiana Jones and Star Wars were Lucas' homage to those days. All it takes is prior proper planning and patience to make it work.

    Creating dueling series set in different periods would be extremely confusing.
     
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  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    It works for Marvel and fails for those other entities because Marvel makes superb movies that are very well tied into one another. There is a logical progression from one movie to the next, even when they aren't necessarily happening chronologically. Those other cinematic universes have more misses than hits. There are some enjoyable moments in there, but they are few and far between. I thoroughly enjoyed Wonder Woman but I am still waiting for a good Superman or Batman DCCU movie - which is heartbreaking because those are each great characters.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    No I am not basically saying that. Don't play those games with me. I'm saying it's a hell of a lot more difficult than you are trying to make it sound and whiffing on that sort of set up can set you back by years and cost your studio a ton of money.
    It doesn't just take proper planning and patience. It takes a borderline miracle to work. If that is ALL it took, everyone would be doing what Marvel is doing right now.

    Movie serials of the past are not at all a fair comparison to the grandiose scale in which the MCU is structured and how a similar Star Wars one is structured.

    Extremely confusing? People seemed to handle Solo/Rogue One well enough. People seem to handle various Marvel characters not being in the same universe simultaneously to the MCU.

    But that's probably why they are moving forward with one series right now and not the other.
     
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  14. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Only a couple of studios have tried. Marvel of course and this made others very excited. Warner Brothers said hey we can do this with DC, but of course rushed it. It wasnt the idea it was the rushing. DC didnt follow the Marvel roadmap. They tried to jump right in and do the ensemble thing without establishing the characters. It may have worked much better had they started with films like Wonder Woman, Shazam and Aquaman, then Superman and Batman films and then lead up to an Justice League film, but they basically started with Justice League lite (Batman vs Superman) after said hey lets have guy who did Man vs Steel do it and sorta use the Batman from Christopher Nolan movies as the model for Batman. You also had Universal start it with a Monsters Universe, but started off with a bad movie that likely killed it.

    My though was just another way to bring Star Wars movies forward with multiple films. We already have the Star Wars Universe. My thought was how to bring forth new characters for use in multiple films.
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    While I agree that matching Marvel is not the right approach, I think some sort of coherent connection could've been good.

    For instance, I originally wanted to see something like this (timeline and some plot adjusted a bit from what I said a year or two ago):

    2019- Abrams- The Rise of Skywalker
    Finishes up this trilogy and sets up some sort of threat from the Unknown regions

    2022- B&W- Old Republic movie
    Strong story set in the Old Republic (not necessarily KOTOR)

    2023- RJ- Sequel to the sequel trilogy
    Beginning of new trilogy in the "original"continuity timeline. Temri and other force sensitive individuals join whatever members of the ST cast are willing to return and discover some horror beyond the borders of the Unknown Region.

    2024- B&W- Old Republic movie
    Continues the Old Republic trilogy. No direct links to RJ's stuff, but some thematic links in that we get some teases of the KOTOR storyline via shennanigans in the Unknown Regions, which should remind viewers of RJ's film the previous year.

    2025- RJ- Sequel to the sequel trilogy
    Continuation of the "not actually Yuuzhan Vong but something better" trilogy

    2026- B&W- Old Republic movie
    Big wrap on the Old Republic trilogy. At some point, sets up a big thematic idea or plot point

    2027- RJ- Sequel to the sequel trilogy
    Wraps up the "not actually Yuuzhan Vong but something better" trilogy, the idea introduced in the 2026 movie ends up being heavily explored on or useful



    I know when it's laid out this plainly and vaguely it seems like a super obvious thread for the stories to make, but I think stuff like this could be subtlely inserted in 2.5 hour movies.

    But yeah, I really like the idea of two alternating trilogies playing off of each other at certain beats. Shame that won't be the case.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The problem is, there is no Marvel roadmap.
    It's an exception. It shouldn't work. If you copy it too closely you end up just making "Marvel movies". That's partially why it works for Marvel. They have all but created and perfected their own genre.
    DC needed to find their own way not try to match Marvel. The first step is hiring someone who understands your characters if they are pre-established characters...something Zack Snyder was not proficient in.

    But if you use them in multiple films, they have to make sense for those films.

    If Rian Johnson has a great idea for a classic noir take on Star Wars and B&W have a great idea for a more four quadrant film, who should yield so the characters fit in a cross venture offering?
     
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  17. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    I dont make assumptions like "There is no Marvel roadmap". The comment was are they doing this, but rather what would you think if they made a series of films that start and then return to each other.

    Film 1: Jedi become Jedi and Sith
    Film 2-x: Films about Jedi and Sith separate as they both develop and grow.
    Film x+1 to Film x+y: Start of Jedi-Sith wars ending with the creation of the Republic and the Sith Rule of 2.
     
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  18. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    The idea what Marvel is doing is some miracle is silly to me. It's basically a movie serial soap opera. DC/Warner Brothers could have followed the same formula, but they rushed it. People are still going to see Aquaman and Wonder Woman so they could try again.

    The main priority for Lucasfilm is to make a new series that people like. Marvel hit a grand slam with Iron Man, but the Hulk films weren't well received and the first two Thor films weren't either. Marvel did manage to avoid disasters though. It took five films to get to Avengers.

    The biggest obstacle for Lucasfilm is do they have enough material? Marvel is mining over 50 years of comics to make films. Most of Lucasfilm EU is focused after RotJ and that's not really useful. This requires the creatives around films to really hit it out of the park.
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    But you are dictating what the creators are making. That's bad. That's Dark Universe/DCEU.
    There's really no reason to have this factor in to BOTH series. You could easily just have it be the B&W series structured this way.

    What is the Marvel roadmap? Successfully alter the entire course pop culture to make "nerd culture" cool? Because that's essentially what happened from 2009 til now.

    Please list all successful movie franchises that span 20+ movies all that are, at minimum financially viable and at worst "just fine" (66 on RT, 0 rotten and 20 certified fresh).
     
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  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    There's not much to add here other than we have different opinions. The film industry has completely changed over the last 20 years and has moved more to a franchise model. Just because once company has a successful franchise doesn't mean another company can't do the same thing. We live in a world full of Pepsi, Burger King, Whole Foods, Starbucks, Amazon.... If Lucasfilm makes stories people want to see they can make films that crossover. What Marvel is doing isn't rocket science.
     
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