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What if Kylo CAN talk to Vader's ghost?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi, Nov 2, 2016.

?

Can Kylo talk to Darth Vader through the Force?

Poll closed Nov 14, 2016.
  1. Yes, and the idea of Sith ghosts will be important in future films.

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  2. No, Kylo is just obsessed with his grandpa's legacy.

    12 vote(s)
    70.6%
  3. I don't know, we're still learning much about the Force...

    5 vote(s)
    29.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel Official

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    That scene where Kylo is talking to Darth Vader has always intrigued me...Then I started to wonder...
    What if Kylo can communicate with Darth Vader through the Force? What implications would this have for the future of the ST?
    Thoughts?
     
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I don't view this as possible.
    Now, I know that it was suggested tpre-TFA that the Force ghost of Anakin/Vader could return and be of both light and dark, but this was just the idea of a designer and not something that occurs in canon. Anakin was redeemed. Vader was no more - and a Dark Sider (or part of a dark sider) cannot live on beyond death.

    However, what is established in canon is the idea of a vergence in the Force. A place that can be imbued by the light or dark. For example, the cave on Dagobah was a place "strong with the Dark Side of the Force".

    I would propose that, if Ren has had any sort of communication with Vader, it is through objects that are imbued with his evil. This isn't really Ren talking with Vader, but rather visions that are actually based upon Ren's state of mind that he interprets in a certain way.
    When he asks Vader to "show him the darkness" or whatever it is he asks, I believe this is because Ren once had a vision (perhaps similar to Rey's and perhaps induced by Anakin's old saber - hence why he is after other Vader artefacts to try and rekindle another such vision) where he believed Vader was speaking to him through the Force. He likely thinks this because Snoke put such an idea in his head. I think this vision was likely tied into the Luke/Vader confrontation on Bespin and I think Ren took from that the idea of what his destiny is. That was arguably Vader's strongest moment - and something Ren would aspire to.

    So in short, I don't think he has actually communicated with Vader, but he just thinks he has.
     
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  3. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    Well, Vader was redeemed and Sith can't be force ghosts anyway. So whatever Ren is seeing (hearing?) comes from either Snoke or the force itself. I just assumed that Vader's mask is much like Anakin's lightsaber, able to "communicate" with strong force sensitives. Chances are that just like the saber, the mask is showing what happened around it in the past and what might happen in the future depending on what the force sensitive needs to see. So its "message" might be influenced by Ren's beliefs and desires, causing him to have a skewed view of the dark side. He wants to see the power but not the horrors, and that's probably what the mask is showing. The lightaber on the other hand is probably "telling" the truth, because Rey is not lying to herself. But they're the same in the end.
     
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  4. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Kylo Ren thinks he is talking to his grandfather but he actually sees/hears Snoke as Darth Vader. Snoke is manipulating him all along. Hopefully we get to see what this manipulation looks like in EPVIII.

    They could use this concept art:
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Darth Ezra

    Darth Ezra Clone Commander

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    i think that kylo wants it so bad that he's convinced himself that he's talking to vader or can somehow feel his presence. he's riding the line between sane and nuts.
     
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  6. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    I can't say anything that would better explain things as you did. I agree with everything you said 100%
     
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  7. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    That's not possible. Sith can't become force ghosts. They're too selfish.
     
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  8. Darth Ezra

    Darth Ezra Clone Commander

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    unless they have a death bed conversion like anakin did. ;)
     
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  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I think Anakin did it because he's the chosen one ;).
     
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  10. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Rebelscum

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    That's not a ghost though.
     
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  12. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    No offence but Darth Bane is a bad example. If a meeting takes place, it will be quick & to the point.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    When Ani gets back to the force party this might happen.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  13. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Rebelscum

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    Many people think that his personality(chosen one) was divided into Anakin and Vader, hypothetically Snoke could summon the red ghost for Kylo. Perhaps the Supreme leader manipulates Ben using visions.
    I consider that Darth Bane is not a bad example.
     
    #13 Quicksilver, Nov 8, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
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  14. Teemto Pagalies

    Teemto Pagalies Rebelscum

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    The use of a Anakin/Vader force ghost (or just redeemed Anakin) is just too good and too powerful to the narrative for them NOT to use. Untill right before we heard of the sequels being made, Star Wars was about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. I don't think a character with such weight would be just used as being cited through pieces of the artifacts he used. In TFA there is already implied yoda and kenobi force ghosts, talking to Rey through the forceback. So we know 'them force ghosts' are still around. It just builds up to the whole mystery as to what has happened to the Anakin force ghost we saw in ROTJ. We -know- he, possibly the main protagonist of Star Wars throughout the saga so far, is still around as a force ghost. If he -didn't- made an appearance somehow would be a plothole in the story IMHO. I'm very much expecting him to make an appearance, if not in episode VIII it would be in IX.

    Wouldn't something feel lacking if we didn't see Anakin/Vader at all in the sequel??
     
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  15. WattoIsAJedi

    WattoIsAJedi Clone

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    If he could talk to Vader's ghost, Vader would tell him not to join the darkside since he turned to the lightside at the end of Return of the Jedi.
     
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  16. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yep that's what we hope.

    Anakin ''Ben the darkside leads to one's destruction, I know since I experienced it, you must return to the light.''
     
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  17. Lord Revanous

    Lord Revanous Force Sensitive

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    DUDE, YES!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what I have been saying for agers!!!

    But I actually thought that it could be Sidious communicating to him as the presence of his grandfather!
    First off, Vader unfortunately could not return, as Anakin did manage to kill him at the end of ROTJ and take his place in the ghost form with Yoda and Ben! (YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY)
    As we know tho, (Old lore) a sith can not take a physical ghost form and just appear! It's not the way it works they enter through dreams and Holocron manipulation!

    Hear me out! HEAR ME OUT HERE! What if ....!
    - Sidious died but had managed to split his conscious mind from his body, ( like Exar did )..... Now, Sidious always had a back up plan, and my guess is he probably had one, lets say if Vader turned on him! NOW, what if Sidious had another apprentice, perhaps aboard the final Deathstar and when the Deathstar exploded that apprentice survived, just but was terribly wounded and there is Snoke! Mkay! Now, a split conscious can take some time to manifest to the point of contact! Sidious, finally gets to his now, older, disfigured apprentice and shows him how to raise not only a Storm Trooper army, BUT a new generation of Siths, and Luke currently has them all!! Sidious would appear to a younger Kylo as his grandfather filling his head with lies and manipulations about Luke and the Jedi!
    Would explain why Snoke has control of the F/O (Empire), why his music is similar to Sidious and why he's all busted up!

    Again, just a theory, an idea I had..... :)

    (crossguard)(crossguard)(crossguard)(crossguard)(crossguard)(crossguard)(crossguard)(crossguard)
     
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  18. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    @Quicksilver That is not a force ghost. That is an illusion of Darth Bane created by the Force Priestesses as part of Yoda's trials. It was established in The Clone Wars that it is impossible for Sith to live on after death. This is why Yoda says they're "captivated by the physical realm". The path to becoming a force-ghost involves conquering your inner dark side, and acting out of pure selflessness via the light side.
     
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  19. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Rebelscum

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    I do not equate the illusion Darth Bane and a force ghost. These concepts are clearly separated, of course, "a red ghost" has a different structure. It is impossible for Sith to live on after death, but something creates a source of this illusions! And I just assumed that Snoke can do things like this and maybe he is manipulating Kylo Ren thus. It's all.
     
  20. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    What I want to know is:

    Why did Kylo ask to be shown the darkness "one more time"?

    Did he need more motivation or was he seeking clarity?

    Who or what was behind the first vision?
     
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