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SPECULATION What if Kylo isn't speaking to Vader?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by TIDMADT, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. TIDMADT

    TIDMADT Jedi Biker

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    Sorry I haven't been around much lately... kids, it's a Vhlor getting old, don't let anyone tell you different...

    So I had this idea, came to me in fevered delusion... what if Kylo isn't speaking to Vader... "I will finish what you started"... what if he isn't speaking TO Vader

    Rumor is that in one of the "tween" books (the ones beTWEEN VI and VII) this band of knights buys Vader's lightsaber with the intentions of destroying it... that struck me as odd right there, they are scouring the galaxy buying Vader artifacts to DESTROY,,,

    The "two party system" (Jedi and Sith) are the problem... they have beat the hell out of each other, neither one being able to claim total victory. The Sith failed to eradicate the Jedi, and the result was that 2 (at least) Jedi survived to train the one who would defeat them. But following the destruction of the Emperor at the Battle of Endor, Luke did not continue his ass kicking tour... he did not rise up against the remnant forces and crush them...

    The Knights of Ren aren't Sith... they are darkside, but they aren't Sith... maybe they see the Sith as week... not living up to the fullness of the darkside... they failed.. . what is needed isn't the rule of 2, it's an army of darkside warriors led by trained knights...

    The galaxy now knows it was Luke that killed Vader... he is a threat... he must be eliminated also...

    Here is the kicker
    Kylo is a Skywalker... he does not know it, because the galaxy doesn't know that Leia was also a Skywalker...

    Everything he has vowed to destroy is what he is...

    Sorry I have not been around much lately... these are the ramblings that come from an ill mind... it was kinda part of a dream I had... in less than 2 weeks we will know the truth
     
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  2. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Rebel Commander

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    Ooh...very interesting. I like the idea of a "third party" group of force users trying to fix the flaws of the previous orders. It also connects to my theory of Snoke being connected somehow to the Rakata, an ancient order of force users from before the times of the Jedi or Sith. Really cool theory!
     
  3. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It's already been established by JJ & Co. that The Sith are gone and that The ST is more about the "grey" area of good/evil.
     
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  4. TIDMADT

    TIDMADT Jedi Biker

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    Exactly... The Jedi were stagnant and corrupt... the Sith were absolute...
     
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I wouldn't say corrupt, exactly, but hey we're being manipulated and had lost their way...in a sense, the Jedi we're dealing with the "absolutes" of good while The Sith were dealing with the "absolutes of evil...that's why I ACTUALLY believe that Palpatinehad a point that it's so much better to learn both sides in order to have a more comprehensive knowledge of The a force, which is actually the key to unlock the true powers of life and death, which is what Qui-Gon Jinn must have achieved, and maybe even Palpatine (?) .
     
  6. LexPrime

    LexPrime Rebelscum

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    I'm pretty sure Palpatine only cared about the dark side of the force, the only reason he said "learn both sides of the force" is because he took a business communications class and is trying to appeal to his audience (Anakin).

    And I sure hope you're not implying that Palpatine cheated death and is now embodying an alien aka Snoke. It's bad enough his first name is Sheev, but I don't want him to be known as the guy that get's uglier every trilogy.
     
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  7. Darth Mavis

    Darth Mavis Clone

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    "what if Kylo isn't speaking to Vader...what if he isn't speaking TO Vader"

    What the f*ck does that mean?
     
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  8. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Lol no I wasn't implying that, just that implying that that could be how Qui-Gon Jinn could have maybe done it .
     
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  9. Longstar

    Longstar Rebelscum

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    Theres a shot of that scene that confirms hes talking to the helmet
     
  10. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Doesn't mean he's talking to Vader
     
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  11. Kuroth Wain

    Kuroth Wain Rebel General

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    Well, yes, but if I remember correctly their idea was to destroy it so that Vader could use it in the "afterlife"... bunch of groupie loonies :)
    I took them to be the start of the Knights of Ren...
     
  12. Cochese71

    Cochese71 Rebelscum

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    I think Snoke is minipulating Kylo into thinking he is communicating with Vader. It's been stated that Snoke was responsible for turning Kylo to the dark side. I think this is how he did it. Not with the helmet but more like when Luke was hearing OB1 through the force or like in the rebels cartoon how Kanan heard Yoda. Snoke is pretending to be the voice or ghost of Vader. Twisting Kylo 's beliefs of how Vader was or what he wanted to accomplish. However at the same time it's also a way to keep him under control or in check. After all Kylo is possibly a Skywalker and that pairing didn't work out so well for the last evil guy. This also fits the description of "there hasn't been a character in Star War quite like Kylo" and also leads him to think what he's doing is right.
     
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  13. Derth Nadir

    Derth Nadir Rebel General

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    The group is in Aftermath and is called the Acolytes of the Beyond. They purchased the saber with the stated intention to "destroy it and return it to its master in death." Like Kuroth, I believe they could be part of what become the Knights of Ren. They also say "We are not violent. Not yet." Perhaps the Knights are the militant wing of the Acolytes.
    Another problem with your theory is that it has been officially established that the First Order see Vader as a "martyr" and Kylo's outfit is directly influenced by Vader. It is clear that they are also trying to do better than the Empire by being even stronger (partially by making an even more powerful super weapon) but they do style themselves after it and see themselves as a continuation of it. Abrams said the First Order came from the idea of what if the Nazis all retreated to Argentina, rebuilt themselves, then came back even stronger. Aftermath suggests the Imperials retreated somewhere beyond the Galaxy to a place that Palpatine was funding expeditions to because he believed he could find the source of the Dark Side.
     
    #13 Derth Nadir, Dec 4, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
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  14. TIDMADT

    TIDMADT Jedi Biker

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    It means when he is holding Vader's helmet, and says "I will finish what you started" it is assumed he is talking to Vader, and will finish what Vader started... and I speculated that maybe he isn't talking to Vader, and maybe that isn't what he is going to finish...

    Don't know... like I said, haven't been feeling good lately... they thought I was having a heart attack the other day, but it is probably imbalanced meds... so when I was having problems breathing today, my roomie insisted on dragging me down to get seen again... but... I digress...

    The idea is that Kylo is on this mission, and finding out his heritage throws that into a loop... that was the jist of the dream, and I kinda filled in some pieces when I woke up
     
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  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I bet you tried to talk like Kylo Ren while testing your vitals :p
     
  16. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Kylo could be talking to, at least out loud to finish what the original Knights of Ren had started. But I don't believe he's talking to Vader either, or trying to finish what he started.
     
  17. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    So, Snoke is a "Force Ventriloquist" then?! ;)
     
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  18. Darth Mod

    Darth Mod Rebel Trooper

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    This is a great theory!
     
  19. shourong

    shourong Clone

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    he's speaking to vader but not anakin. he's speaking to the idea vader had. not when vader decided to change to light at the end
     
  20. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    This is what I always believed - Snoke is manipulating him to believe that Vader was "seduced" by Light in a moment of weakness or "sentimentality" as they call it in the novelization. If he can feel the "awakening" from light years away, he can pull the voice of Vader too. And @Cochese71 is right, this is also a way of controlling him. When he starts to falter or doubt, granddaddy Vader comes to the "rescue".
     
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