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GAME What kind of fan are you?

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by Devizz, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Interesting words my friend but there are many things that don't add up. First you talk to me about the true essence of the OT, which was about decisions and emotions and you use Vader and Luke's battle in ROTJ to prove your point but your own words contradict your defence of TFA as their was nothing that had to do with decisions or emotions. Rey and Kylo knew nothing about each other. There was nothing there and Rey was just fighting to defend herself from a crazy dude who just moments before killed one of her friends and hurt the other. Kylo was just whining about a traitor Stormtrooper and wanting a lightsaber that he claimed belonged to him and he didn't see Rey as anything special. There were no powerful emotions there. Rey didn't even know that the Force existed and even if she was a fighter and the fact that Kylo Ren was hurt didn't stop Ren from outclassing Rey in the duel. It wasn't until the moment that she hears the word ''Force'' that she miraculously got her boost in girl power and beat Ren cause she had not done anything beforehand to let us know that her skills were the ones that let her beat Kylo or at least keep up with him. She indeed was Force boosted.

    Another thing where your argument falls is that you say that skills don't matter as much as emotions. So did you forget that Luke had his butt handed to him by Vader? Had Luke indeed trained more as Yoda himself wanted he might have had a chance against Vader as his emotions were already quite powerful. Luke may not have known that Vader was his father but he did know that he was going against the man that had killed his mentor and his father as Luke didn't know the truth yet. Not only that but Luke also knew that said man was also the vile betrayer that helped destroy the Jedi Order and was putting his loved friends in danger. Do you need to be more emotional than that? And all of this is without us assuming things cause there are many more emotional things that Luke might had found out by the time of his duel with Vader in TESB like Vader having tortured Leia, Vader being the one who shot down Biggs ect. There was an even heavier burden of emotions in Luke in TESB than there was in ROTJ and this didn't change nothing in the battle's outcome as Luke just lacked training.

    You also mention that you saw Rey's successful mind trick as a beginners luck but come on man isn't that really stretching it? The Force was barely a legend where Rey came from and the little things she had heard were mear rumors and just by beginners luck she did all that? Sure I can let that slide when she pulled out thoughts out of Kylo's mind as she was indeed seeing that he was doing that to her but out of the blue she just imagined that the Force could control minds as well? She just came up with the idea that the Force could give her telequinesis as well? Wow that really is beginners luck if I have ever seen it! That's the same as saying that you were a dude who knew how to fight with a bo staff and you suddenly found a ninja sword and had a vision of an evil ninja killing others and then, out of the blue, you learn how to become invisible, you become an expert swordsman and you suddenly know ninjutsu.
     
  2. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Its not so much that I contradicted myself, but rather that we disagree. I mean Han Solo was a father figure and a mentor type to Rey, despite they knew each other for only a short time. The fact that she saw Kylo killing Han was very emotional to her. But she was also scared yet curious. She lived her relatively peaceful life in a void planet far-far away from all the crazy events of the galaxy, before she suddenly found herself in the center of everything. Imo many emotions were going on in that final duel. After she finally found her peace, the force was with her and she won. When she returned to the Resistance base she looked like she changed a lot. She is calm and already wiser.
    To quote the guy who wrote the article I mentioned: ,,Kylo Ren loses all control. Rey gains it. Rey wins. It's really painfully obvious. In regards to the characters, and the force, this movie was just about perfect." And I agree with the poster. I think a lightsaber duel between force users has to be something different than just two trained warriors fighting with swords in a well coreographed scenario. TFA retwisted the lore to the OT's direction and I liked it. Though I understand that its not everyone's cup of tee. I agree that the overcoreographed, but usually completly emotionless duels (except the Obi-wan vs Anakin ofc) in the PT looked cool, but imo those were empty, meaningless and despite the cool visual effects, eventually boring.
    I liked TFA's duels and the ,,boring" duels of the OT much more, because those were fights between characters and ideals rahter than just a duel.
    Imo the ,,slow" duel between Obi-wan and Darth Vader in ep IV is a lot more interessting than any battle in the PT.

    Im not saying that its only about emotions ofc, though emotions are the most important things to a force user.
    Luke in ep V was not ready yet emotionally. His anger and rightful will for revenge alone didnt lead him to victory. He couldn't gain control yet back then. There were just way too many things going on in his mind. It was Vader who was controlling. He basically just toyed with his son. Luke needed to find his peace yet and to find out who he really was.
    In ep VI when Luke eventually accepted the truth about himself and his father, he was finally able to gain control. Ever since his first entry to Jabba's palace he was calm and fully surrounded by power. It was Vader who was struggling. His inner battle between light and dark prevented him from beeing able to defeat his son.
    It had nothing to do about who had more lightsaber training. When Luke entered the cave to defeat his own darkness in ep V, Yoda even told him that he dosent need his weapon at all, remember?
    Well considering Rey knew about the jedi (and the deeds of Han, the rebellion, and the battles vs the empire) or at least heard about them, she most likely also heard rumours about their abilities and thus the force. After the lightsaber incident in Maz's castle where she was told about the force and how it calls to her, I think she just tried to mimic one of the legends she heard about, that a force user can control some people's minds. However again, this is only my interpretation.
    I didnt have problem with this idea because imo the whole concept of the jedi and the force should be lot more misterious than it was presented in the prequels. Imo just beacuse someone trains with a mini lightsaber from the age of 5 shouldnt instantly lead to the ways of a jedi. The force and the jedi should be misterious, like it was originally presented by Ben Kenobi and Yoda and thus occasionally strange things should occour.
     
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  3. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    You wanna know something? Even though we disagree on various things I have to say that I really enjoy talking to you. During our conversation we have both exposed our points without resorting to badmouthing each other or blasting our posts with negative quotes. We have each spoken our minds without one trying to make the other look like a moron or a loser. I wish there were more people here like you General Tarkin as it makes it fun to be debating and exposing our points of view and it doesn't feel like you are talking to an adult and not with a little kid or a mindless troll. :)
     
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  4. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    To make a long story short: The quiz made me “Hardcore, optimistic” – back from the late 70’s until now. (r2-d2 2)
     
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