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What Lucas was really telling us with the Midi-chlorians

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    A topic of debate between Star Wars fans has long been the Midi-chlorians. Many fans believe that Lucas made the force too "scientific" and took the fantasy out of the saga a bit.. but I believe this is far from the truth.

    Lucas introduced the Midi-chlorians as a scientific measure of how great a Jedi could be (to further explain Qui Gon's hype around Anakin) but I also believe that he introduced them to show the Jedi Order's arrogance. The Jedi had become so scientific, that they were almost trying to play God to some extent. No longer was the order simply believing in potential students, but they were measuring them by what was the Order's equivalent of an IQ count.

    Remember when Obi Wan told Luke to put the navigation computer away? How he'd told Luke to let go of his senses.. and put on the blinding helmet to spar with the training droid?

    Lucas didn't let go of this stuff or "forget" what made the force so great. I believe Lucas made a point to tell us that the Jedi had become arrogant with science. I also think this was Lucas' way of criticizing academia.. the university systems and how students have to gruel through years of legwork and over-analysis in order to prove that they can do a job.

    You could even use Rey as an example (i'll lose a few people here) that you don't need to go through this system and be shown to have a high Midi-chlorian count to succeed.

    Anyway.. that's my view on it. I think Lucas' put a lot more thought into it than most of those who criticized this part of The Phantom Menace (a film I think is mostly good)
     
    #1 Grand Admiral Kraum, Jan 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  2. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Attuned

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    Love this reading of the prequels. Not sure you can say for certain whether this WAS the intention, but it certainly makes sense in context, and makes the whole work better.
     
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  3. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Lucas also expertly used the concept midi-cholorians to set up the influential (to Anakin) Sith Legend of Darth Plagueis in Episode III: Revenge of the Sith:

    Palpatine (to Anakin): "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful, and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life."
     
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  4. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I think it was simpler than that. It was to show how distant the Jedi had come with respect to the Force. They’d lost their way at some point and strayed from their core beliefs. They’d become a system of dogmatic rules and uncompromising platitudes in an attempt to control something that wasn’t theirs to control. That’s why they were oblivious to the darkside and why they ultimately allowed themselves to be destroyed from the inside. That's been my take for a while now.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I agree this might have been the original intent, but as Ive said in conversations, it isn't exactly what was presented.

    This wasn't more noticeable and a malleable take until TCW and other media helped.
     
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  6. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Yeah, I can’t imagine anyone would ever claim this idea was well executed in the PT - like just about everything else :)

    Being disillusion by a well-intended organization for the enforcement of arbitrary rules that stifles creativity more than it aids it, is certainly something George had some strong views on. I’m looking at you, DGA.
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    He really needed a counter opinion to the midichlorians in the PT. It came off more as "This is the new official line for the force in Star Wars" rather than "This is a mistake by the Jedi" because there was no emphasis in countering it. A small story line of some Jedi masters being displeased with midichlorian counting or what not. Give another strong connection back to the "natural force."
    This would have worked for Obi-Wan (IMO) since he wasn't on the council in TPM and could have easily been questioning of this.

    Just a thought.
     
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  8. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    That’s definitely true. I was personally hoping that it would be revealed that the Jedi had a rigid caste system based on midi count. The more you had, the more important you were and the reverse. The one most sensible to question this would have been Anakin IMO. He was a former slave, being compelled to call people in authority “master”.

    He should have been the one to call out the Order’s hypocrisy (perceived or otherwise). That, coupled with being forced to hide his marriage, and prodding from Palpatine, would have been a good impetus for the betrayal we knew was coming.

    Oh wells. Now we’re just fanficking :oops:
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I agree by ROTS or AOTC he should have been, but Obi-Wan could have been the catalyst for this....and you are dead on right about the caste system etc. which would be incredibly effective vs someone who believes in the natural force > bacteria counts

    Perhaps it would have hit too close to home for scientologists George knew...
     
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  10. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I can get behind that. Eventually Yoda would come around too. Then we’d establish that the two Jedi we saw in the OT were actually the exception and not the rule.
    I had assumed it wasn’t a coincidence that Lucas had called the old government “The Republic”. It reminded me of Plato’s Republic - an idealized utopia ruled by philosopher kings. Sounds cool in principle, but when you really dissect it you discover some rather disturbing ideas. Like taking children from their parents to be raised in a predetermined class . . . . . . <cough>

    Anyway. Anakin trying to connect with the ‘true force’, with Palps as his guide, could have helped lead him to the darkside. That was maybe the Force’s true nature the Jedi had lost touch with (oops). Meh, just spit-balling.
    Ha. Jedi Dianetics. A missed crossover.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    This level complexity to midichlorians is why people don't like them in the end.
    Not because they are this complex, but because they didn't explore this.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Yeah, Lucas was dealing with some exceptionally profound concepts in those movies that few people bother to notice, because they were above his skill level to effectively implement. A great big old bummer.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Yep.
    Growing up in the PT era, it was always hard to fully and coherently state why I didn't like them as much as the OT. But being older now, it's much easier to express that without it just being "PT SUXXX", though that can still be a fun rabbit hole when bored.
     
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  14. Onid Bonazzo

    Onid Bonazzo Force Sensitive

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    I enjoyed your take on the intent of midichlorians. It would be a long shot to say that it was the actual intent, but in theory, your explanation works poetically and logically.

    The whole Midichlorians thing can be settled if someone can just confirm them acting as "hyperconduits" for the force....all can be avoided.

    Plus it would help your theory if they said Rey's count was zero. Thatd be cool.
    Truly an awakening from nothing.
     
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  15. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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    The argument sounds contradictory: the Jedi were either arrogant concerning science or the opposite.

    My sense is that it was simply used to measure a person's ability to use the Force. Being able to use it effectively still involved what Ben Kenobi said.
     
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  16. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I believe the midichlorians were used to explain a sentient being's connection to the Force.

    More importantly, I believe they were used as a metaphor for the situation between the Nabooans and the Gungans, which was very important to the narrative in "The Phantom Menace".
     
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  17. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi Commander

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    Wholeheartedly agree with the OP.

    As Luke explained to Rey, the Force is not a power the Jedi have. It connects everything in a cycle of birth, death, growth, decay, peace, violence, light, dark. The Jedi thought the Force belonged to them alone, not realizing it connects everything and everyone, and those who can't manipulate the Force are just as much a part of it as those who can.

    Midi-chlorians show just how "us vs. them" the Jedi Council had become, "If you don't score high enough on this test we administer then you can't join our club." The Jedi focused so much on the dogma of their beliefs about the Force that they lost sight of the Force itself. Mace Windu even suggested to Yoda that it was time to inform the Senate that the Jedi were losing their ability to use the Force. This makes sense when you realize the more the Jedi isolated themselves from those with low midi-chlorian counts they were isolating themselves from the connection that is the Force.
     
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  18. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Sensitive

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    That basically sums it up. haha
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    George will go down as one of the best story creators of a generation...and perhaps also one of it's most maligned story tellers....
     
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  20. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Sensitive

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    Dooku.

    Dooku could have been the one to keep prodding Obi-Wan in AOTC (of course we can get to the whole "AOTC should have been episode 1" conversation which would have given this more time to flourish, but....we needed the Gungans important contribution to the saga like the Bothans....wait...what is a Bothan, why dont' we see one or get an explanation about their conflict?.....oh noooo, childhood ruuuuined!!!!!).

    It would have set up a 'question of faith' conflict for Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace Windu. Who knows what kind of conversations they may have had, with Anakin being made a bit more sympathetic because he's the subject of this conflict.
     
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