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WHAT ONE ELEMENT WOULD YOU CHANGE OF THE ORIGINALS?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by CTrent29, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    I would change this:

    Luke Skywalker : But what if this Obi-Wan comes here looking for him?

    Uncle Owen : He won't. I don't think he exists anymore. He died about the same time as your father.

    Luke Skywalker : He knew my father?

    Uncle Owen : I told you to forget it. Your only concern is to prepare those new droids for tomorrow. In the morning, I want them up there on the south ridge working on those condensers.




    To this:

    Luke Skywalker : But what if this Obi-Wan comes here looking for him?

    Uncle Owen : He won't. I don't think he exists anymore. He died about the same time as your father.

    Luke Skywalker : He know my father?

    Uncle Owen : Just because two people died "about the same time" doesn't mean they knew each other, Luke. Seriously. What a dumb question.
     
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  2. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Yeah, but that's not how film logic works. The whole point of that line was to show Luke's pining for this idealism he's put into place of having his Father.
    At this point, it's more important for Luke to be told to focus on the here and now, and not in the clouds (something Yoda even smacks him for later - it's a running theme with him). It also removes the rather minimalist and efficient delivery of information that Owen and Luke have a squarely set young buck - authority figure contest going on where Owen is trying to flex his authority (which we learn is from a place of care) and Luke is trying to flex his freedom and independence.

    It also shows that Owen would rather tell Luke to shut up than answer his question, which implies a mystery about the whole thing.

    Owen's one line of dialogue goes a long way.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  3. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    I agree, but Luke's question is like asking someone from England if he knows "John" because John's from England too.

    What I'd like to know, and maybe it's already been covered in a comic or a novel, is what was Luke told about Anakin? From ANH all we know is that Luke believed that his father was a navigator on a spice freighter. I wonder if he was told that there was an accident or pirates that attacked the freighter he was on and that's how he died. Or, was he told that his father died of a heart attack right on Tatooine? I'd love to know what story was cooked up for him. Also, what was he told about his mother? We got even less about that.
     
  4. Clifford

    Clifford Rebel Trooper

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    This may be pushing it but I would've loved it if the fights were as epic as this

    I get this may not have been possible since technology was pretty limited back then.
     
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  5. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    That's what I meant by the bit about film logic.
    All story logic in a typical film is two things: unrealistically relevant, and an incredible false dichotomy of either/or.
    Nothing in a good story exists outside the relevance of the main characters. If it does, then it's just real life and not a good story.

    Equally, they all position it that the characters either go forward through the overly relevant set up or stop. Which is bull in reality, but good for stories.
    Luke didn't have to push either to be a moisture farmer or go on an epic adventure. Even when his parents die, he's straight up wrong that there's nothing left there for him. Of course there is. He could do any number of things on the planet, or even off of it, but he's positioned like his only choices were ever a) stay home, b) join the galactic battle in some way.

    Nope. Dude could have gone and done just about anything.

    But that would be a very boring story.
    So everything matters, everyone relates, and there's only two paths ever at any point.

    Which is as ridiculous as needing a train to power the time machine in Back to the Future 3 when really they could have just gotten the gas from the one Doc put in the mine in 1885 just a few days prior.

    Luke is such a fake character, in reality. He talks of very little outside of what has to be backdrop drivers for the story, and acts as if he's never been out of the farm once in his entire life, or talked to anyone from anywhere else ever.

    Ben has to tell Luke about Eisley? A place he can drive to in less than a day?

    Even without technology that's just silly. It's not like he's from Bronze Age Athens showing up in modern Brazil, but that's how he's talked to - like he's just the Forest Gump of Tatooine. Don't mind him, he's slow. Special, but really slow.

    But it doesn't matter. None of the backing makes any sense if thought about because it's really only there to fuel up this near cardboard robot of a character and get him kicking along the yellow brick road. Don't scratch the paint or you'll see the metal is just cardboard cut outs.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  6. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    You beat me to this @Clifford I was going to post this as well....or.....this.....

     
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  7. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Better action & choreography, especially the lightsaber fights.
     
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  8. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

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    Hmm. I think it's weird of Yoda to bring it up. Yoda's lines to Obi-Wan indicate a lack of faith in Luke, which I find interesting. He's doesn't really have a lot of faith in Luke as he trains him and only seems to be encouraged with Luke's efforts with accomplishing certain things- i.e. jumping, running and at one point, lifting the X-Wing.

    So, we have these lines:
    YODA
    Luke! You must complete the
    training.

    LUKE
    I can't keep the vision out of my
    head. They're my friends. I've
    got to help them.

    YODA
    You must not go!

    LUKE
    But Han and Leia will die if I
    don't.

    BEN'S VOICE
    You don't know that.

    BEN
    Even Yoda cannot see their fate.

    LUKE
    But I can help them! I feel
    the Force!

    BEN
    But you cannot control it. This
    is a dangerous time for you,
    when you will be tempted by the
    dark side of the Force.

    YODA
    Yes, yes. To Obi-Wan you listen.
    The cave. Remember your failure
    at the cave!

    LUKE
    But I've learned so much since
    then. Master Yoda, I promise to
    return and finish what I've begun.
    You have my word.

    BEN
    It is you and your abilities the
    Emperor wants. that is why your
    friends are made to suffer.

    LUKE
    And that is why I have to go.

    BEN
    Luke, I don't want to lose you to
    the Emperor the way I lost Vader.

    LUKE
    You won't.

    .......................................

    YODA
    Stopped they must be. On this
    all depends. Only a fully trained
    Jedi Knight with the Force as his
    ally will conquer Vader and his
    Emperor. If you end your training
    now, if you choose the quick and
    easy path, as Vader did, you will
    become an agent of evil.
    .........................

    BEN
    Luke, don't give in to hate -
    that leads to the dark side.

    Luke nods and climbs into his ship.

    YODA
    Strong is Vader. Mind what you
    have learned. Save you it can.

    Artoo closes the cockpit. Ben and Yoda stand watching as the roar of
    the engines and the wind engulf them.

    YODA
    (sighs)
    Told you, I did. Reckless is
    he. Now matters are worse.

    BEN
    That boy is our last hope.

    YODA
    (looks up)
    No. There is another.

    Yoda saying that there is another is basically: that's okay- we have plan B. To be honest, that makes Yoda appear callous towards Luke, which doesn't surprise me. Yoda seems worried that Luke will likely take up the dark path and is pessimistic about it, thinking that Luke will be subject to some awful fate- i.e. torture, death, using the dark side, etc.
     
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  9. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    It's literally only there because Lucas wanted the audience to doubt Luke's survival so that when he faces danger they can wonder if he's going to bite it because he can since there's another.

    It has jack all to do with Yoda and was never written from any consideration of Yoda's character or the sympathy of the line with Yoda's constitution in the rest of the scene.

    Lucas is pretty blunt and frank about it.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  10. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    It's not really an element that I myself would change (because I'm a preservationist), but in ANH, right at the beginning Vader lets off a rather odd line.
    Well, it's only odd, now. It wasn't odd during the OT era, and definitely not odd in 1977.

    Vader has just been told of the updates from the Commander at the beginning, and of interest to him is the bit about the escape pod with no life forms on board, which he rightly surmises must be where the stolen plans were stashed for safety.
    He ends by giving an order to go get them.
    "Send a detachment down to retrieve them. See to it personally, Commander. There'll be no one to stop us this time"

    But it's that very ending remark that's the odd part.
    "See to it personally, Commander. There'll be no one to stop us this time!"

    Who was present to stop you before?
    You might point to Rogue One, but this line is at the end of a tangent of discussion that goes like this:

    Commander
    Holding her is dangerous. If word
    of this gets out, it could generate
    sympathy for the Rebellion in the
    senate.

    Vader
    I have traced the Rebel spies
    to her. Now she is my only link
    to find their secret base!

    Commander
    She'll die before she'll tell
    you anything.

    Vader
    Leave that to me. Send a distress
    signal and then inform the senate
    that all aboard were killed!

    Second Officer
    Lord Vader, the battle station
    plans are not aboard this ship!
    And no transmissions were made.
    An escape pod was jettisoned during
    the fighting, but no life forms
    were aboard.

    Vader
    She must have hidden the plans in
    the escape pod. Send a detachment
    down to retrieve them. See to it
    personally, Commander. There'll be
    no one to stop us this time.
    This is right after Leia chews Vader out and threatens that "the Imperial Senate will not sit still for this".

    Taken as a whole, the distinct impression that you are given is that they are bowing to the Senate, nervous about appearing to be overstepping their powers of authority, are staging a cover up to sell off to the Senate so they don't get their a**es handed to them on a plate and can keep Leia since the Senate will think she's dead.

    They aren't informing the Senate that they captured the ship, or indeed were even pursuing the ship.
    They're informing the Senate that a distress signal was sent, creating the evidence to support that claim, and telling them that the ship was destroyed and everyone on it is dead.

    That's what you do when you have to answer to a part of the government you don't want to answer to. It's a paramilitary cover up operation.

    Which, we'll set aside for a moment how Rogue One makes this really awkward because how exactly do you go about covering up this move while THAT massive battle is blaringly loud on every signal reading across the galaxy.

    The amount of ships and crap involved in THAT final battle was just nuts. Several very large ships, scores of fighters, tons of engagement with official military vehicles of the government - all of which - at this time - answer to the Imperial Senate....as Leia so pointedly notes right at the beginning of ANH.

    So we'll just put all of that aside for the moment because there's the weirder part.

    "This time."

    This time?

    Who ever stopped you before? Again, keep in mind the context. NO ONE is talking about the battle of Rogue One.
    Everyone's talking about the Senate and covering up their operation so that the Senate can't stop them from their pursuit of the Rebels because the Rebels, implied by the Commander and Vader's comments, have political sympathizers and members IN the Senate. And Vader has singled his focus down to Leia, who appears to have considerable sway in the Senate - enough that the Commander considers her a dangerous political prisoner that will generate sympathy for the Rebellion.

    In other words...who the hell in the Senate ever stopped you before?

    Now, back in 1977, whoopty doo. You heard all of this and it was no big deal. You filled in the blanks and assumed the Senate had stopped them through political rejection of their actions previously, which frustrated Vader's ability to hunt down the secret Rebel base.

    And that's all there is to it. That's what really is going on in that scene.

    But now...now it doesn't square because when you get out of the PT (and CW) you really don't have this idea preserved. After all of that the idea of the Senate telling the Emperor that his boy Vader and the troops can't do something is quite laughable.

    Even if it isn't, never was there a moment on screen that shows Vader going after the Rebels and the Senate stepping in and saying, "Hey! Nope. Stop that."

    Hell, they took out any of the sympathizers in the Senate in ROTS, and Order 66 was way harder of a sell than this, yet in ANH, they are worried about the Senate getting into a bind about going after this one ship. And if Rogue One happened, jesus...that's really easy and you don't need any of this cover up at all because you can quite easily just point to the GOVERNMENT being attacked by terrorist Rebels and then point to this ship BEING there - which you EASILY have proof of - and Leia's on board.... It would be like Pearl Harbor happens, and then we go after a ship that's not part of our military that was observed as being part of that battle on the wrong side, and we take it over and find an American diplomat on board.

    And then we're worried about Congress getting pissed off that we attacked that ship and arrested the diplomat? On a ship openly observed to have been involved smack in the middle of an attack against the United States? I don't think so.

    Now...

    I wouldn't change this line. It's just another oddity that can't neatly be cleaned up after all of the monkeying around through years of Star Wars films retconning the plotline.

    I'm not complaining, keep in mind. It's just more a..."Huh...I wonder what that could have been."

    Relevant to the Thread's purpose of things to change...well...I guess...

    At this point, I'd venture redubbing that with cut audio and remove that tail end of Vader's dialogue if I were Lucasfilm (who gives no sh**s about constantly editing and changing the films).
    Same with the line about the Emperor Disbanding the Senate. Actually, I'd just go back through ANH and rip everything out that has anything to do with the Senate because the way that ANH talks about the Senate has no line up with how we feel about Palpsy by the end of ROTS.

    We're not made to feel like he has to bow to them. It more feels like they now bow to him. All that would need to happen is Palpsy just say, "No, no. I ordered them to do that. These Rebels are sympathizers with those evil Jedi I took out with Order 66. And you recall that we were just attacked by terrorists and this ship was part of their fleet and was fleeing the battlespace when we apprehended it."

    *shrug*
    Oh well, lol.

    PEW PEW! Star Wars!

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #270 Jayson, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  11. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    I never thought of that before, but that's a great point! Man, that really was an accident waiting to happen, lol. :p

    On the topic of RotJ, the second Death Star never bothered me. Especially since it seemed bigger and badder than the original Death Star in every respect. You get the sense that, if the Empire had been able to finish it, they truly would have been unstoppable that time.

    I am, however, a bit disappointed we never got to see the original concept of the Rebels teaming up with a band of escaped Wookiee slaves. I don't have a problem with the Ewoks in themselves, per say... but the Wookiee slaves would've made more sense for the story, it would've been cool to see Chewbacca reuniting with and fighting alongside other members of his species, and it just feels like a wasted opportunity in general. Oh well. Still my favourite Star Wars film.
     
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  12. delph

    delph Rebelscum

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    I would like to see some extra scenes with female characters as Leia is one of the few women that appear in the original trilogy. For example, in Star Wars Forces of Destiny Bounty Hunted
    Leia meets Maz Kanata
    Maybe some extra scense with some female characters like the one aformentioned?

    Agree, like the duel between Obi Wan and Vader.
     
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  13. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Rebelscum

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    I like most of the changes to the Special Editions, but one really irritates me: the entire "Jedi Rocks" sequence in "Return of the Jedi". It stops the movie dead in its tracks, and ultimately serves no point since the whole song is done in an alien language with no subtitles.
     
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  14. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    ^Even as a kid I never liked that scene. Just... ugh. :p
     
  15. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    One thing that I would like to change its how Return of the Jedi was idealized, planned and directed. (Nothing to complaint about ANH and TESB, perfect movies).

    But...ROTJ there's something different in a odd way. Probably the childish tone, and some of the jokes that I don't think it matches with the two firsts.

    I always thought if ROTJ had been directed by Lynch how different would have been.
     
  16. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    The rebels who work for the Senate (in secret). As it was mentioned in opening crawl:
    63d14ea54e5dfcc9761d5f0164c030ac.gif
    The existence of R1 neither worsen that line nor does it make it better. It's still has the same meaning.
     
  17. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    It felt like it was done because they could. Kind of like well, we are doing these reissues so we need to change something. Personally, I'd like to see it removed. I agree it serves no purpose and inserts a comic scene in where one is not needed.

    I'd love if Disney put out the original versions. I'm sure there is something in the contract which states they can't. But if they could I'd love to see 'em on Disney+
     
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  18. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    That line says Vader is chasing her.
    It says nothing about Vader & Co. having been stopped from their pursuit before.

    That is literally where we open.
    Not what has been ocurring before.

    It's a line that Vader lets rip that works perfectly well when there weren't prequels or prologues.

    It sets up the idea of having been chasing down the Rebels repeatedly, and having manipulated the situations skillfully to dwindle it down to Leia as the last remaining possible link to the Rebel base.

    It still works fine, but it's a snaggle tooth of a line with all the other movies butting up against it.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  19. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Like this.
     
  20. steakfromjakefarm

    steakfromjakefarm Rebel Trooper

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    I would love to see the originals but with modern special effects.

    SC 38 reimagined is also something I'd love to see, because the fight between Vader and Kenobi is a little dull.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2020 ---

    [​IMG]
     
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