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What was the point of the Ski Speeders?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by cassidy, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Maybe they're like go-carts, some are faster than others, and weight dramatically affects the speed of the vehicle (Rose weighing about 110lbs or so and Finn closing on 200). It's a ridiculous stretch, and I hate defending TLJ lol, but I guess that explanation would be possible? (hard to imagine a ship being so weak that 100lbs would make a difference, but it beats any other explanation I'd ever seen attempting to explain how Rose reached Finn with Finn getting a big head start)

    As for their purpose, I guess they were meant to make the FO slow down to consider destroying the speeders. I think mainly it was for visuals (which were great) and for toys (though I don't recall seeing much of them) as well as the ski and red distinguishing them from the Snow speeder for ESB (mm, it's salt, not snow!). It's unfortunate they didn't come up with a reason beyond delay, because other than taking time to shoot them as they came, there wasn't much they could do to slow down anything. It could be argued they didn't even have to slow down to shoot them down, as they barely engaged with the enemy and turned very early... thus were not really needed to give time to contact allies. But I guess Leia didn't know how long that would take and they may have engaged more had Leia not received a response so early.

    For those who argue this logic vs ESB Hoth logic, I don't think it stands on the same footing. Snow speeders were vastly superior vehicles with at least the ability to do some damage. Xwings needed to be prepped as the Rebels were taken by surprise. Yes we have to extend some logic, but it works. In TLJ, the ski speeders logic is minimal. Yes, we can make similar leaps to ESB to reach a conclusion, but the conclusion is weaker nonetheless, although it does exist.
     
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  2. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    The logic behind the ski speeders was that it was all they had. They were in an old run down base with next to no resources. The point of them was to continue to show the dire situation that the Resistance was in. Even though there was not much chance for success they were not going to give in. They were going to put up some form of resistance even if it was going to be a last stand.
     
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  3. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Sure!
     
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  4. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    But gets called off on account of being too dangerous . . . . . . . . . just sayin’ :D
     
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  5. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    Which is why I won’t buy her action figure even at $1.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2019 ---
    And for the record, I bought 2 zuvios.
     
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  6. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Why do people think that Finn crashing into the cannon was nothing more than a pointless suicide run? It was too late. Poe had called off the attack. I'm not sure he was even gonna reach the cannon based on the way it was slowing him down.
     
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  7. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    I don't. It was a Kamikaze run. "There is no greater love than this...to lay down one's life for his friends". Then Rose had to screw it up and sexually assault him.
     
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  8. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I'd rather have Rose and Finn in the next film than Finn killing himself for no reason. "There is no greater love than this...to lay down one's life for his friends." Exactly, Rose's sacrifice had a meaning. She risked her life to save Finn's. Finn was risking his life for nothing.
     
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  9. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    She risked her life to save Finn's by potentially killing him by slamming her speeder into him? How would she have felt if she killed him and she lived and he wasn't able to attempt his Kamikaze? Doesn't make any sense.

    ps- someone called me a troll for saying Rose sexually harassed him (I assume that's why, bc that was the only thing that could be considered possibly, maybe trolling)....it was just a joke b/c he didn't really seem interested in the kiss....at this point he clearly has a thing for Rey.
     
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  10. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Maybe they're thinking of Randy Quaid in Independence Day?

    The scene really should have been clearer on this point I feel. It was a pretty pivotal moment. People shouldn't have had reason to be confused.
     
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  11. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    @DailyPlunge for clarification, you are asking why people think it was pointless, correct? I mean, it was a suicide run, but one with a very obvious point. Are people confused about that?
     
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    No, why do people think him dying or crashing into the cannon was going to do something? The film establishes that it's too late to blow it up. Finn is simply being stubborn and he's fighting what he hates in a way that won't help. His death accomplishes nothing
    Finn was about to die. She did the only thing possible to save him. I don't any issue here.
    I'm not sure why people are confused. I guess they just assumed Poe was wrong and Finn was going to figure out a way to blow the cannon up?
     
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  13. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you said. So you meant:

    I think Finn was saying "screw it, we are gonna die anyway, this probably will not work, but man, I'm trying it anyway! I will sacrifice myself for my friends."


    I do, he made his choice, to die for his friends, she changed his mind for him, and risked her life at the same time. It wasn't her choice to make. In TFA, Finn told us "I was raised to do one thing. But I've got nothing to fight for." He had something to fight for now.
     
    #33 ObeeJaun, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  14. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    The wording “suicide run” gives the impression that the effort might have been successful, but Finn would have had to trade his life, and Poe believed that was a price too high to pay.

    I don’t think that interpretation makes much sense given what Rose says immediately following though. The effort was futile from the start and Finn was too blinded by his own rage to see it. In a movie full of noble sacrifices though (the need of the many outweighing the need of the few), it should have been made crystal clear that THIS wasn’t that. I understand why so many people came to the conclusion they did.
     
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    If my friend is going to kill them self for no reason I hope I have the courage to save them. I don't get the animosity to Rose for sacrificing her safety. Probably no reason to discuss this further since I'm never gonna understand the reasoning. Agree to disagree I guess.
    Poe: The cannon is charged, it's a suicide run! All craft, pull away!
    Finn: No! I'm almost there!
    Poe: Retreat, Finn! That's an order. Finn? It's too late!

    I just never got the impression from that exchange there was chance to blow up the cannon. Also, based on how his ship was denigrating it didn't appear like he was gonna make it anyway.
     
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  16. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    Well if it was just suicide, then yes, by all means stop him, but he was making a last ditch effort to try and save them his friends. Try and convince a WWII Japanese Kamikaze fighter that its for naught.

    Poe's opinion was that it was a lost cause, it doesn't make it so, but yes, we can agree to disagree.
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    “A suicide attack is any violent attack in which the attacker accepts their own death as a direct result of the method used to harm, damage or destroy the target.” - Wikipedia (the most venerable resource for accurate knowledge:rolleyes:)

    I absolutely agree with you. From nothing more than a plot perspective, Rose stopping Finn from (ostensibly) saving everyone* due to some moral objection would be bizarre and nonsensical.

    The term itself though invokes a particular expectation from the audience. Couple that with the established pattern of suicide attacks (Paige/Holdo) and it’s logical to me that’s where a lot of people’s heads went. Maybe if Poe had outright stated that Finn’s speeder would be blown apart before reaching the cannon - spelled it out, everyone would hopefully be on the same page with this. Just spit-balling.

    *It’s been mentioned before, but the whole point of the ski speeder assault was to buy time for their allies to show up. Since no one was ever actually coming, even if Finn had succeeded, it would still have been a pointless death.
     
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  18. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    I think when debating this issue, we have to reason out what exactly we're debating.

    Did Finn have a chance to destroy the canon?
    Was Poe's objection due to lack of odds of success or due to not wanting to lose a friend (or something else)?
    Is fan objection to Rose's rescue due to her risking both their lives? ... or
    Is fan objection to Rose saving Finn about the mechanics, having to turn around, catch up, pass him by enough of a margin to line up and hit him at 90 degrees seem too unlikely?

    There might be more, but tackling each of these questions individually could at least determine where we agree, where we agree it's nuanced, and where we disagree.

    Personally, I think saying Finn didn't have a chance of success in destroying the canon is kind of silly. There are no real mechanics, it would depend on the writers and whether it serves a purpose. So in that vein, he had as much of a chance as Holdo breaking convention on her run.

    I think Poe's objection could have been double edged, he didn't believe it could be done, and he didn't want to lose his friend. Whether he was right or wrong would have been up to the writers.

    Rose could have killed them both, she probably should have gotten them both captured or killed by the FO by crashing so close to them. At the very least it should have split them up from the Resistance. It wasn't well or fully thought out.

    The mechanics do not work, at least not without a throw away line early on that would suggest that the ski speeders were in dramatically different states of repair/disrepair or some other explanation. The logistics simply don't work, or were not properly portrayed in the movie.
     
  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I didn't give this a second thought. It's a very simply scene with a very simple explanation. To each their own.
    I didn't view this as a "suicide attack." I viewed it as simple suicide. A meaningless death. There was zero chance it was going to work.

    This topic falls a on the nitpicky side to me. If you don't like a movie you can find reasons not to like it. I like TLJ and I like ESB. So the fact Luke attacked AT-ATs with the wrong ship has never bothered me.
     
    #39 DailyPlunge, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  20. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Jedi General

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    The cannon wouldn’t have been destroyed by Finn, and even if it had, the First Order still would have found another way into the base or would’ve trapped the Resistance inside. The speeders were only meant to buy time and presumably distract the First Order’s from any potential allies arriving.
     
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