What's the point of this trilogy?

Great scene, but he had to be coaxed to do it, and it doesn't change the fact, that he created a mess, and now others have to fix it. The problem here is, that Luke did nothing for 5 years, and needed to be convinced to act, despite the fact that everything was falling apart around him. His disappearance wasn't part of some long term plan to right the wrongs of the past, like Obi-Wan and Yoda. He just gave up, and abandoned his friends, family, and the galaxy at large to drink green milk. That is not the Luke we knew, and to many we weren't given enough character development to make the transition believable.

 

After the multiple viewings of TFA and TLJ, I think the ST works best for me as an epilogue to the OT. I think I’ll drive myself crazy trying to see these movies as one big story so I had to find a way to recognize the ST cause I still enjoy the movies as their own entity. So the OT will always be THE story for me that has that happy ending in ROTJ, and the ST is sort of a ‘what if’ epilogue 30 years later. It would be like if someone told me in 1985, there will be some post ROTJ material of a different take on Luke’s character just to make it interesting.

 

I feel like this has become a microcosm of what I dislike about TLJ criticism.

"Why did 'x' character do 'x' thing?"

It's explained in the film.

"Sure, but I don't understand their reasoning?"

They literally spell out why it happened.

"Yeah, but I don't like it."

No one cares.


Not to call anyone out or anything, it's just that it seems like these tired criticisms fall apart so quickly when put up to any sort of scrutiny. It's fine if you didn't like the film, but

1) it's not my job to convince you otherwise, nor is it your job to make me dislike it as well.

2) Oh my god, the movie came out almost two years ago, get over it and occupy your time in a more healthy way.

edit: Sorry if this came out kinda harsh. Honestly, everyone deserves a place here, but I just feel like nothing new has been said about TLJ in such a long time, and we'd all be better off moving past it.

 

That's like, your opinion...man. You may feel "these tired criticisms fall apart so quickly when put up to any sort of scrutiny", but a lot of people feel otherwise, and believe TLJ is:

a) not a very good film when seen in a vaccuum, revolving around a slow chase, where inexplicably the FO can't catch up with the good guys who run out of fuel, where conflicts are contrived, and are based on one character inexplicably not sharing information with other characters, having tonal issues, a string of gotcha moments, that grow old fast, etc, etc.

2) a poor continuation of an existing story, where the new characters are pushed at the expense of the classic characters, the story and plot are too similar to what came before, making much of what came before pointless by resetting the galaxy to the start of ANH, without providing any context, such that armies appear from nowhere, and the FO is reigning despite losing their home base, while the New Republic is inexplicably decimated having suffered a similar setback, and loss of resources.

I have found that there's a tendency of some ST fans to attack other fans, rather than discuss content, because they have a different opinion, and feel they should just shut up about it. I don't tell you what to discuss. Just accept that we are just as passionate about the franchise as you are. If you don't want to discuss content, and just attack people, than just stay out of the discussion, rather than act like a....

 

I'm sorry, I thought it was pretty clear from my post that I have no intention of continuing this discussion.

I appreciate that you're a passionate fan, but honestly I'm just tired of this. It's just gotten... boring. You're totally welcome to your opinion, but I just don't really care what it is or isn't. I've heard it all at this point, and remain thoroughly unimpressed.

Sorry.

 

You should have just done that to begin with rather than attack people.

 

I honestly don't know why you keep insinuating that I'm "attacking" you.

It's cringey.

Have a good day.

 

Yet, you keep making these statements, which have little to do with content. Tired, boring, unimpressed, and cringey are all terms that have no place in such discussions, and generally just antagonize people, but I think you're smart enough to know this.

A good day to you as well...

 

This was a problem with TFA, not TLJ. Just wanted to make sure you wasn't lumping the sins of TFA into the sins of TLJ.

 

Partly, however TFA at least kept up the appearance of a FO in the outer rim, and the existence of a New Republic. While these were deliberately downplayed in favour of preserving the Empire vs rebels dynamic, it was TLJ that literally turned the Resistance into rebels, again and wrote the New Republic out of existence. There still were a ton of possibilities with the FO and New Republic both having suffered a major setback, that wouldn't involve an Empire vs rebels redux.

 

The Republic consists of thousands of star systems. The FO destroyed a few planets, yet we're supposed to believe the other systems just give up, and allow themselves to be overrun by the FO without putting up a fight. At the same time the fact that the FO's base and all the resources on it were destroyed doesn't affect them in the slightest. So, the FO has plot armor, while the NR just roll over. That is on TLJ, not TFA. It's a recurring issue with the ST, that is not restricted to TFA. Whenever the writer's require it, either side turns into a bunch of bumbling idiots. In TFA the NR is completely dead in the water, such that we can get a rehash Empire vs small of band rebels, no explanation required. In TLJ the FO just pulls infinite resources out of a rabit's hat, while the remains of the NR (about 99.99% of it) just gives up, so that we can get Empire vs rebels for real, no expanation required. Then the FO gets to wear the idiot stick, and somehow can't overtake a few rebel ships, or attack them from different sides, because it is not convenient to the writers. At the end of TLJ the rebels are reduced to 20 people on a little ship, but I'm sure in TROS we will again have a full fledged rebel alliance pulling resources out of thin air. Compare this to Lucas' saga, where it took two decades to build an alliance to fight the Empire. There's no time or scale in the ST. That's why everything feels small, and inconsequential.

 

TFA doesnt take out a few planets. It takes out nearly the entire government of the New Republic including the mass of the New Republic fleet. It was basically a massive nuclear attack occurs on Washington DC while the President is in town, congress is in session as is the Supreme Court. At the same time the US Naval fleet is all in port in Annapolis.

Starkiller Base was a military base and we saw what 1 maybe 2 First Order Star Destroyers at the base. We also know they escaped. First Order also existed on fleet (much smaller fleet then Empire) of capital ships. Not planets. So in TLJ we see what 20 capital ships. Opening crawl and Rey dialogue with Luke establishes that First Order is out taking over systems.

As for the Space Chase. I have stated this before. It isnt a chase. It is your classic siege depicted in space. They were simply waiting for the food (fuel) to run out.

The two decades was because the Empire had a firm grip on the galaxy. The First Order like the Resistance is a small shadow of the empire. A much smaller fleet of capital ships and very little planetary systems under its control. The Resistance will be attempting to rally planetary systems to put forward their planetary defense fleets. Think Naboo in TPM.

 

It isn't a chase, but a siege you say, but why would the FO do this? A siege is a military strategy applied when a direct attack is too costly, or dangerous, and so you wait it out, such that the enemy weakens to the point you can relatively easily overwhelm them. The Resistance was attacked by the FO, and were already overwhelmed. They present no great risk to the FO, and postponing an attack would only increase the risk of the Resistance attempting an escape, calling for help, or some other scheme, that could endanger the FO's position. It just makes no sense in-universe. It's just convenient for the writer to not have them attack just yet, and so they don't.

 

Again explained in movie. They were out of range. Again military tactics (especially by Empire and First Order) have always been terrible since ANH. If we are going to not just go with it then that should have started in 1977.

 

Out of range? What a laughable concept, given what has been established in-universe. How about sending a few ships ahead through hyperspace, and attack them from the front, or create some sort of blockade.

 

Because the same reason why Rebels didn't escape Hoth from the other side of the planet where the movie never made it clear that the whole planet was surround by the empire? or Luke escaped Hoth not too much longer than the rebels escape and all of the sudden the empire just left the system.

If you want to talk about military tactics. Why did the snow speeders attack the AT-ATs head on? Why didn't they attack them from behind? If they were going to attack the walkers from the front, why didn't they fly higher than the angle movement of the head of at AT-ATs? Luke literally got people killed for attacking them straight on due to poor military tactics.

Also, in the first death star attack, why didn't the Rebels fly above the trench rather than inside it? The movie never showed that there was turrets guarding above the trench, just in side of it.

If you wan to talk about incompetence, look at the empire who didn't shoot down the escape pods from the blockade runner. You would think empire would find something fishy when rebels send multiple escape pods with no life forms when there hunting to find an object that obviously doesn't have life. Vader picked it up quickly, why couldn't his officers?

I can go on and on about illogical gaps in the previous 6 movies that is no different than what we see in TLJ. Heck there's a whole thread dedicated to this topic

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....wo-turrets-or-dumb-stuff-that-bugs-you.55539/

Why does those movie get a pass? but the exact same logic in TLJ that was in the previous movies can't? You can't pick and choose, you have to look at the whole picture not just pick and choose parts that you don't like while ignore the exact same logic issue from other movies. Its fine that you didn't like TLJ (I personally hate TFA more than TLJ), but just because something you don't accept as an answer doesn't mean that answer that was given was wrong? I personally love world building which was one of the best things out of the PT but TFA robbed us of that. Most of the issues that people have against TLJ should of been answered in TFA. It was clear as day in TFA that The Resistance was Rebels 2.0 and First Order is Empire 2.0.

 

Very minor point, but it is worth mentioning that Starkiller base was a temporary base, good for... I dunno, 3 shots? -- (have the number of Starkiller uses been established in canon?) -- before the sun was used up and the planet destroyed in the ensuing cataclysm.

So the fact that the First Order has other eggs not in the Starkiller basket, such as the Mega Destroyer, is quite logical and sensible even though it was not spelled out in TFA. The alternative would be that FO put all its eggs in the Starkiller basket, a basket they knew that once they started using it's super weapon, it was only a matter of time before the base would be destroyed (by "friendly fire" one could say).

 

The issue for me is, that the slow chase forms the spine of the entire movie from which multiple story threads follow, one of which is the contrived conflict between Poe and Holdo. So, it's the compounded effect of multiple illogical, and contrived story choices, that dampens the enthousiasm for much of the film. The films strongest parts are the ones involving Rey, Ben, and Luke, the rest just seems pretty poorly conceived to honest.

 

The whole ending of ANH happens because the Empire does multiple stupid things. They put a tracker on the Falcon. Yet didnt send an armada to the moon because the Death Star was to slow. Then the Death Star hyperspace is to far away so they must go around the planet. Since it is so easy to control hyperspace jumps, so much so that you could just jump right in front of ships just out of your range, why didnt the Empire have the Death Star jump again. Still why didnt the Empire just use the Death Star to blow up Yavin? The destruction would have destroyed the Rebels and the moon.

The Rebels as well do stupid things. There is no plot of Han trying to leave and Boba Fett trying to get him to take him to Jabba had the rebellion sent the money that they had already given to Han to pay off the debts. Instead they leave a leader in peril who makes the decision to leave the rebellion to pay off debts.

So again you need to put aside tactics when watching Star Wars movies. The tactics done or not done are to move the plot forward and that is all.