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What's the point of this trilogy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by DailyPlunge, Mar 3, 2018.

?

What's the point of this trilogy?

  1. A young woman's path to becoming a Jedi

    21 vote(s)
    12.4%
  2. The redemption of Ben Solo

    23 vote(s)
    13.6%
  3. The birth of the new Jedi Order

    15 vote(s)
    8.9%
  4. We'll cross that bridge when we get there!

    62 vote(s)
    36.7%
  5. Other

    48 vote(s)
    28.4%
  1. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Can we steer this back on topic? This thread is about the overall story of the trilogy. There's other threads out there to discuss TLJ.
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Agreed, back on topic-

    I agree with the original post, for sure. The biggest problem with the ST, in my opinion, is a lack of context. Not that the OT didn't also have these issues when it first released, but Star Wars has had so much transmedia since then that I think we as fans expect more. Not really understanding the basic conflict of the trilogy is kind of a problem. I went into some detail on this problem in this thread, where I wondered if average audiences really understood the world that the sequels are set in.


    But another thing I'm worried about is more related to TROS.

    And to be clear, this is coming from someone who has enjoyed the sequels and is otherwise pretty optimistic and excited for Episode IX.

    But TFA and TLJ were so closely linked, arguably to a fault. No two movies in the series have led so closely into each other as these, and the story so far has been only a few days total.

    With the time jump to TROS, I feel like some potential issues could arise:

    - Audiences could feel alienated. The relationships between characters so far has been only over the course of like a week. After multiple years, surely big things have changed.

    - It could feel like a spinoff. Maybe that isn't the right word. I guess what I'm trying to say is, imagine a TV show that in its last season decides to skip forward a number of years, or do something different. Maybe something like How I Met Your Mother's gimmicky final season, or the last season of Parks and Rec where it was set in the "future" (ironically, now the past). Maybe even Lost's "flash sideways" moments in the final season. Basically, TROS is immediately going to be a huge change, and may feel "off" compared to the rest of the trilogy's pacing.


    Again, this is all just speculation, and I'm hoping for the best. Don't mean to sound all doom and gloom, because that's really not how I view things at all, but I do have some concerns with this.
     
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  3. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    There is no one voice to this trilogy. I don't care how many directors or writers one uses, there is no one voice. Kathleen Kennedy shoddily handled this trilogy from the start.
     
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  4. Rodney-2187

    Rodney-2187 Guest

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    Here are a few things I've gotten from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi so far:

    Rey seeks to define herself through other people. She wants to learn something about herself by finding out about her parents. She tries to get Luke and later even Kylo to tell her what her role is in all of this. My interpretation of the lesson in the mirror cave is that all this comes from within and your purpose is a decision you make. No one can tell you who you are.

    Right and wrong, good versus evil, success or failure, are not always clearly defined as we would like. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly what to do. It would be nice if decisions were easier, but often there is just no perfect answer. Was destroying the Dreadnought worth the sacrifice? Maybe. Leia didn't think so. Would Finn's attack on the canon have been worth it? Poe didn't think so. Rose especially didn't after losing her sister. What about Holdo? They all see things a little differently, and as they say, hindsight is 20/20. All we can do is make the best decision we can.

    I was much more optimistic and resilient when I was young. I had not failed enough to matter. As I got older, let's say I got more acquainted with failure. It is easier to forgive other people than to forgive yourself. You expect more from yourself. Sometimes we even seek to unburden ourselves by shifting some of the blame. Only when we fully own the mistake, and are honest with ourselves about what happened, can we forgive ourselves, learn from the experience, and then grow as a person.
     
    #264 Rodney-2187, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2019
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  5. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Canto bight screen time from leaving the Raddus to returning was like 12 minutes. Canto Bight was to develop Finn's character and put him in a position to finally choose a side.


    Going to add something about the whole chase sequence. A common complaint is why didnt the FO just do a short hyperspace jump to get in front of the Resistance. Recently Star Wars Explained had a video where they went over how hyperspace worked according to various canon books. What was clear was that even the shortest jump like jumping then immediately stopping would still be a huge distance way beyond where the Resistance was headed.
     
    #265 KeithF1138, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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  6. RogueRebel

    RogueRebel Rebel Commander

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    I completely agree with this - Finn is one of leads in the sequel trilogy . Let’s not forget this . TFA was about him defecting from the side he was brainwashed into believing in from a child and breaking away from the first order .Whereas TLJ was about him forging & choosing his own path and where he belonged . We got to see first hand what constant war was doing to the galaxy ie contrasting the wealthy elite who made their money from war with the oppressed kids and fathiers being viciously whipped to keep them in their place . The prequels touched on this a bit with Anakin and his mother as slaves but the Jedi didn’t do anything about it . It sounds to me like after his Canto Bight experience (along with Rose) , Finn’s awakening was made clearer and he really could be the man to rise up and lead all those oppressed people ( stormtrooper revolution included ).
     
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  7. DrDre

    DrDre Rebel Commander

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    Seems to me that in TFA by choosing to rescue Rey, and accepting the help of the Resistence in the process, Finn had already chosen a side. His arc in TLJ thus seems to be just a repeat of the arc he already had in TFA. Had TLJ started with Finn joining the Resistence in their fight, I don't think anyone would have complained, that it didn't make any sense. People would have assumed Finn joined the Resistance like Rey did.

    Seems rather convenient, that the FO can time their hyperspace jump to arrive right behind the Resistance fleet, but not in front of it. If a short jump is not possible for some inexplicable reason, why not do two longer jumps, one away from that location, and then back right in front of the Resistance fleet. Like I said, if they can get right behind them, they can get right in front of them.
     
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  8. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I mean, the easiest answer to this is "you don't actually know anything about the fictional technology of hyperspace travel, so it probably doesn't work that way".
     
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  9. DrDre

    DrDre Rebel Commander

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    Like I said, convenient. Just like it's convenient, that all the ships in the FO, who are obviously better funded have exactly the same speed as the Resistance fleet. The slow chase is just not a good story device. At no point in any of the previous films was jumping in front or behind any enemy location ever an issue, and even then the Star Destroyers always caught up with the rebels, who's only option had always been to escape through hyperspace. Since, that option has been taken away, the rebels shouldn't have a chance in hell, since they're vastly outnumbered, but the movie had a 135 min runtime, and so the FO had to take their time, since RJ needed them to for the other elements of the story to work. Sometimes the most logical explanation is not some inexplicable in-universe technical limitation, but just weak writing.
     
    #269 DrDre, Aug 19, 2019
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I mean, anything in a story is "convenient" if it moves the plot forward.

    It was convenient that the Jawas sandcrawler made its way to Luke's homestead.
    It was convenient that the T-47 airspeeders had tow cables.
    It was convenient that Luke's plan at Jabba's palace panned out.

    But again, you or I don't know how hyperspace travel works. The fact that it doesn't work the way you'd like for it to doesn't even qualify as "convenient", as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Yep.
    It's convenient that when Luke is stuck upside down in a Wampa den he can now pull a lightsaber to him. Where the hell did that come from!?!
    Star Wars has always had these silly conveniences to drive story and drama. It's kind of baked into the genre of fantasy and pulp story telling in general.
     
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  12. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Isnt it rather that the FO tracking tells the FO where the hyperspace jump ended and to end in the same spot. Since the FO is slightly behind the Resistance they come out of hyperspace where the Resistance was a few minutes before hand.
     
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  13. DrDre

    DrDre Rebel Commander

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    The problem of course is, that this convenience didn't move this part of the plot forward. It slowed it down to pretty much the runtime of the movie. Add to this that it doesn't seem all that consistent with what had previously been established, which is why we never had a slow chase in any of the films. It thus doesn't make much sense, but I guess we now start pointing to other inconsistencies in the other movies....
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 19, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 19, 2019 ---
    That's a reasonable explanation, but I remember the Empire being a lot smarter. Vader: "calculate every destination along their last known trajectory".
     
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  14. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    When did the Star Destroyers ever catch up to the Rebels? I dont recall any scenes like this in any of the other movies. OK check that the very beginning of ANH and hey isnt this a flaw with ANH. How did the Empire track that Tantive IV. It is perfectly feasible that the Resistance put more emphasis on speed and FO put more emphasis on weaponry.

    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 19, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 19, 2019 ---
    What did that do for Vader and the Empire. It took Boba Fett being smart enough to realize they floated off with the garbage. That line was always a sign of desperation to me.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    And we know that there are hyperspace flying lanes essentially to prevent crashes and catastrophic events. So you don't really get to just jump out in front of someone. If you mess up the calculation to jump out a little bit in front of the Resistance, you end up crashing into Crait and destroying the entire fleet.

    So you can calculate their destinations, but you'd still come out in the relatively same spot as them.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    What, exactly, has contradicted this so far?

    It doesn't make sense to you. That's fine. Unless you're a mechanic who's worked on hyperdrives before and has some experience piloting your way at FTL travel, I'm not really sure why your knowledge is the end all be all of what is and isn't possible with this fictional technology.
     
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  17. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Actually, lately I’m of the opinion this sequence should have been longer. It would have been more effective if it hadn’t been so rushed.
     
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  18. YetAnotherSuperweapon

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    I wasn't sure anyone else felt this way.

    I like the barebones of Finn's arc with him starting the movie caring only for Rey to deciding to fight for a cause, I like the moral division in the views of Rose and DJ and I like the finale where Finn realizes he is selfishly embracing his hatred, but the character change is rushed. I believe the film would greatly benefit from Finn struggling more with his desire to find Rey or having a scene where we clearly see his destructive hate for the First Order.
     
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  19. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    * What's the point of this trilogy? *

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I agree. Finn spent most of his time reacting to what rose and DJ had to say instead of discovering these characters’ position through actions or subtle references. But, yes, the purpose of that sequence and what it’s attempting to achieve is good and very relevant to Finn’s arc.
     
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