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What's the point of this trilogy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by DailyPlunge, Mar 3, 2018.

?

What's the point of this trilogy?

  1. A young woman's path to becoming a Jedi

    17 vote(s)
    12.2%
  2. The redemption of Ben Solo

    20 vote(s)
    14.4%
  3. The birth of the new Jedi Order

    11 vote(s)
    7.9%
  4. We'll cross that bridge when we get there!

    58 vote(s)
    41.7%
  5. Other

    33 vote(s)
    23.7%
  1. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    The sins of the father are visited upon his children. But ones destiny is not defined by ones bloodline.
     
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  2. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    The PT is about loss. The OT is about salvation. The ST is about healing.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  3. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    To destroy a master piece cash cow evidently.
     
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  4. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    To you maybe.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  5. JediJarJar

    JediJarJar Clone Commander

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    To show that Darth Sidious wouldnt go down that easily.
     
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  6. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    The canonical plot is that one : The rule of 2 is a ritual, a sacrifice where when the apprentice strikes his master full of hate, somehow, the essence of the master is fullfiling the apprentice with all the siths before him and increasing his powers with time.

    During the OT, Palpatine asked Luke to free his hate and strike him to accomplish the ritual but because of Vader it didn't work.

    Note that Mace and Rey didn't strike Palpatine too like Vader didn't.

    So Palps died without the ritual took place so he cheated death ( like he said he could ) and was waiting on the Sith planet for someone worth his power to accomplish the ritual again.

    On the new heroes' side, Ben Solo broke the curse by fullfiling what Anakin couldn't do : Save the one he loves from death.

    But for different reasons, it completely lacks of continuity during the trilogy.
     
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  7. GotTheSilver

    GotTheSilver Rebel General

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    I'm thinking this is the best answer. Seems to make the most sense, when you boil things down.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2019 ---
    I'm going to have to think about this some. I assume you mean the redemption of the Palpatine family, since Sheev died unredeemed.
     
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  8. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    This is pretty much it, at least in one angle.
    Lucas and Kasdan have both talked about being fascinated with the idea of whether the "child" is trapped by their "father's" history, or if the cycle can be broken.

    In this light, the PT is where the sin happens, the OT is where the sin is atoned, and the ST is where the cycle is broken - because atoning isn't stopping the cycle from happening again, it just course corrects back to center from going too far left. Someone still has to hit the breaks.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  9. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Force Sensitive

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    But I don't really feel like the cycle was broken, at least not at the end of TROS. The cycle repeated. The sins of the past generation were passed on, as were their successes. Nothing really changed. Ben didn't break free of the cycle, he repeated it. Rey I guess did, but it's not her role in the cycle we were worried about.


    I'm not sure I agree with the ST being about healing either, because there wasn't much shown, in either healing or wounds. Han and Leia's marriage wasn't mended (nor was their relationship fully repaired), Luke's healing was admittedly complete, but the wound inflicted was a step back from the OT.

    The "find your family" theme was muddled, but it was there. As was the idea of legacy. But both were too muddled for my taste.
     
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  10. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Ben and Rey burying the feud hatchet breaks the cycle, and healing is all over the film, both emotionally and physically.
    The giant soap opera wound of Skywalker/Palpatine is gone - they have loved each other; rather than simply defeating each other back and forth.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  11. AmalricLex

    AmalricLex Clone

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    There was no convincing basis upon which to bury the feud in the first place. The Skywalker/Palpatine dynamic was thrown in at the last moment in order to give TROS drama that was entirely unearned, especially when you consider that TLJ had her entirely ignore every good reason Rey had for despising Ben in the first place solely to have them go through a romance plot that largely does not work whatsoever. She's reduced to a plot device rather than a believable personality with genuine conviction and the reveal of her lineage expectedly rang hollow.
     
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  12. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    To you.
    To me, not at all.

    The ST reads very well and fits narratively together with the PT on one end and OT in the middle.

    The ST always had a strained Rey struggling through self identity, which has been a mainstay of Star Wars from the beginning - are we chained to our lineage's history, or are we able to be free of it? Lucas has talked of this much; so has Kasdan.

    Rey brought a new angle of having to firstly find validity in her own self worth, regardless of lineage, and then keep hold of that self worth and self-identity in the face of finding that her lineage has no redemption, unlike Luke's. There is no good to feel in the her grandfather, unlike Vader.

    Is she, then, incapable of being her own agency which she only just came to terms with accepting?

    She feels this; she's terrified of it.
    But she finds strength in herself through being reminded of what she learned in TLJ; you choose what your value is, what you choose is who you are, and your worth.

    TROS' addition to this tangent ties TLJ's point for Rey back to the "sins of our fathers" motif Lucas and Kasdan built it on by adding, "...regardless of your lineage."

    Which makes the 42 year old ontological question of Star Wars about being chained to one's lineage...yes. You can be your own self and not be defined by the past you inherited.

    Further, that you can stop violence, and hate which has swept you up into the ocean of its vast history with knowing your chosen self, and resolving to your chosen self, even in the midst of an historical maelstrom, gives you the power to love over hate and stand anew.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  13. AmalricLex

    AmalricLex Clone

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    You mean that theme the saga already covered far better?
     
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  14. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel Official

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    Star Wars is based on mythologic stories where repetitions of themes is very central. It will always be about the good vs the evil, struggling with transitions in life and family. And no, they will probably never do it better than the OT, but that doesn't mean they can't add to the story.
     
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  15. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    $$$$$$
     
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  16. AmalricLex

    AmalricLex Clone

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    It's one thing to add to the story and another to add something worthwhile to said story. It's hard to argue the latter for the ST since so much of it is blatantly built on as rickety foundation as TFA, where the writing and direction was less served to crafting a genuine continuation and more to manufacturing an empty sentiment.
     
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    The issue of quality is an aesthetic, and for you this wasn't good, and that's all there is to that subject.

    Regarding recurring themes, however.
    A New Hope contained themes which were self sufficient and required no further movie to satisfy those themes, yet ESB and ROT were made and refrained those themes.
    These, which comprised the Original Trilogy, contained those themes, and advanced the theme's premise a bit further than ANH in a self sufficient manner, and required no further movie to satisfy those themes, yet the Prequel Trilogy was made and refrained those themes.
    The Prequel Trilogy contained those same themes, and advanced the theme's premise a bit further in a self sufficient manner, and required no further movie to satisfy those themes, yet Lucas wanted to make more films and expand upon those themes further.
    He chose to sell the films to Disney because, and I quote.

    "Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?" - George Lucas​

    So Disney made the Sequel Trilogy which also contains those same themes, and advanced the theme's premise a bit further.

    The theme in ANH is not the same after ESB and ROTJ.
    The theme in the Original Trilogy is not the same after the Prequel Trilogy.
    And the theme of the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy are not the same after the Sequel Trilogy.

    Though the themes refrain, the story of the themes are not the same, nor is what they say the same.

    Just because a chorus has played twice in a song, it doesn't mean that the song is over.

    You may not like the Sequel Trilogy, and that's fine, but it did advance the theme's premise and take it to another explorative direction than had previously been done.
    We didn't explore the ideas which Rey and Ben bring to the story yet. We explored the same themes, but not from the same lens of topics, and through them, the theme was brought back to the beginning where it started in the very first film - self discovery, self identity, love, loyalty, friendship, and family.

    And yes. You are correct that the theme has been done before. We never needed more than A New Hope to cover these themes.
    We needed more films to cover the additional expositions of these themes.

    Anyone can stop and be satisfied anywhere they want. There are those who only like A New Hope and consider the rest garbage.
    There are those who stop after ESB, and those who stop at the OT. And still, those who only attend to the PT, as well as those who take both, but not the ST.
    Of course, there are also those who take the entire 9 films together, just as there are those who also take a wealth of the EU.

    I'm sorry that you didn't like the films, but the themes are valid and advance the narrative; the aesthetic of them is a matter of personal choice.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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  19. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Cantina's Mad-Hatter
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  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I like this new trilogy, but it's clear that there's no clear long term plan for this to make sense as a part of the saga. I'm sure there's some mental gymnastics one can do to make it fit. I can understand why some people are going to struggle with the story.

    Hopefully Lucasfilm learns a lesson here. Winging a story about mythology has long term consequences. Thankfully JJ created great characters and that's what worked the best in the end.
     
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