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What's the point of this trilogy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by DailyPlunge, Mar 3, 2018.

?

What's the point of this trilogy?

  1. A young woman's path to becoming a Jedi

    17 vote(s)
    11.1%
  2. The redemption of Ben Solo

    22 vote(s)
    14.4%
  3. The birth of the new Jedi Order

    13 vote(s)
    8.5%
  4. We'll cross that bridge when we get there!

    60 vote(s)
    39.2%
  5. Other

    41 vote(s)
    26.8%
  1. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Darn.

    That's hardly unusual.

    Ask Lucas. Rey came out of a treatment Arndt wrote under the direction from Lucas.

    Also, she's a Palpsy, so seems like the Soap Opera kept it all in the same little family drama after all.
    And then there's Ben...

    The ST ended up being about a bad Skywalker and a good Palpsy.

    *looks at the millions upon millions of bumper stickers in the world and the level of near hysteria to Mandalorian when Luke showed up...*
    I'd say Red 5 is still good to go.

    It never meant anything beyond one very simple thing: a son reuniting with his Father and burying the hatchet.
    That isn't removed by anything that has happened since.

    Commercially: *looks around at the massive relaunch of Star Wars, to include multiple TV shows, a massive theme park, piles of toys, video games, books, and just a general massive flood of commercial presence that is year over year showing up in Disney's quarterly report as either saving a segment's bacon or performing well*

    No.

    Artistically:
    Perhaps. I can't argue this one because it's art. I've listened to and read folks who found the ST to be more artistic than the originals. Hell, my wife only became interested in Star Wars because of the ST. It made her cry. That's something the previous Star Wars films never did for her.

    Now, do I think they are better art than the originals? Ooph. That's almost impossible to answer. They're vastly different enterprises.
    It's like trying to answer whether I think ESB is better art than ANH. Um...well...they are vastly different artistic expressions, so I don't really know how to go about measuring that in some empirical manner.

    The best I can do is measure the technical capability of the hundreds of artists who work on these pieces of art, and in all cases, regardless which Star Wars you look at, you are looking at highly capable and technically skilled artists and craftsmen performing at the peak of their capabilities.

    I think probably I would have to pick ANH as being the most artistic from the batch only by one measure, and that is that ANH was a culmination, a sort of climax, of progress Lucas had been working on since college - a sort of film language that he was developing and refining over time. You can watch it if you go back to his college films and watch every film he made along the way (including the documentaries he made, such as 6-18-67, or The Emperor).

    When you look at his films in a sequential series in order (and I HIGHLY recommend this as a Star Wars night at some point for any fan!), then once you reach Star Wars it's like a pure explosion of finally nailing the ultimate version of what he was chasing after through all those years (though he might think of it as his penultimate, 'This is not the greatest film in the world, no. This is just a tribute!').

    For that reason, I think I might personally claim that the first film is the more artistic, because a part of artistry is the emotional explosion of the artist in finally expressing their desire where previously they were restrained, repressed, or otherwise incapable.

    Cheers,
    Jayson

    p.s.
    For those fans who want to try it, the viewing order for reviewing the first Star Wars as the joyous artistic explosion it was, here's the watch order:
    Name - Runtime (minutes)
    Look at Life - 001
    1:42.08 - 007
    Freiheit - 003
    Herbie - 003
    The Emperor - 024
    Electronic Labyrinth: THX 1138 4EB - 015
    Anyone Lived in a Pretty How Town - 006
    6-18-67 - 005
    Bald: The Making of THX 1138 - 008
    THX 1138 - 086
    American Graffiti - 112
    Star Wars - 121

    Total: 391 minutes (6.5 hours).
     
    #401 Jayson, Mar 29, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
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  2. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    Hmmm... "Kirk's Kids". Has a ring to it. I'm thinking there's definitely a series in this. A Star Trek sitcom perhaps? I'd watch.
     
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  3. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Jedi General

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    Money!

    but the real purpose was Ben Solo redemption
     
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  4. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Force Sensitive

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    Yeah I love seeing that play out in ROS. Seeing Ben Solo come out again was awesome especially seeing his history and life in the ST.
     
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  5. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    All the power to you if you enjoyed the sequels, but I think there is a lot of spin going on here. If one were be objective these films are a mess.
     
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  6. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Force Sensitive

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    There is a point to every trilogy in my opinion. I feel that, in a way, they all do connect. For the ST, i think the point is to pass on this Vader Legacy. It is picked up by Kylo Ren. But, like in the OT, good will beat evil. Kylo Ren is converted to the light side as Ben Solo in ROS.
     
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  7. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think each Trilogy sort of put the 'Saga' in a new context. In 1983, the OT was about Luke and is his 3 movie arc. In 2005, the PT/OT was now about the rise/fall/redemption of Darth Vader. In 2019, the PT/OT/ST was essentially Palpatines vs Skywalkers, and in the end, a Palpatine saved a Skywalker to defeat The Emperor.
     
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  8. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Force Sensitive

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    You put that so nicely! Each trilogy does indeed put our perspective on a different part of star wars. OT’s focused us on Luke and Vader and their relationship with each other and the force. The PT’s showed us the rise and fall of Anakin. And the ST was all about the balance of the force if you ask me. Great post. I agree though. Each trilogy connect so well because they put our eyes on other aspects of SW.
     
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  9. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    This is why I am one of the few who liked that Rey eventually became a Palpatine (whether it was planned or not). By bringing Palpatine back, the 3rd Trilogy brings everything full circle. Every Trilogy has either a Palpatine or Skywalker being a villain (or teaming together). The ST is the first time a Palpatine and a Skywalker team up as good guys (Ben and Rey at the end of the movie), and maybe that was the Prophecy that was possibly misread in Episode 1?
     
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  10. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Force Sensitive

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    100% i love how everything in the end, connects so finely. Like you said, everyone comes full circle.
     
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  11. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel General

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    Here's a fan essay I saw on Reddit about TROS:

     
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  12. Darth Heelious

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    Bloodline does not matter. Love the sequel trilogy (despite its shortcomings).
     
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  13. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    I think.....the whole purpose was just to get rid of the Skywalkers.
    In the EU Han and Leia had three children, lost two of them to the Dark Side, but their daughter survived, while Luke and Mara Jade had a son. There were losses, but the Skywalker/Solo bloodline lived on.
    But the sequels gave us just one descendant and he was on the side of the bad guys.
    TFA killed off Han. TLJ killed off Luke. I actually thought Luke had a terrific character arc in TLJ, and although I didn't want Han to die, Ford himself did, and he said he wanted his death to have some meaning.
    As a result I came to believe Han's death was meant to be the beginning of his son's redemption.
    But....looking back I'm pretty sure it was just so audiences would hate him and cheer for 'the characters of Poe, Rey and Finn'.
    TROS killed off Ben Solo/Kylo Ren and with him the last of the heroes' bloodline fell.
    Kylo of course, is not one of Lucas's creations, but he was the last of the Skywalkers and Solos by blood. Therefore the new characters going forward have no connection to Lucas and so Disney can start afresh with their own characters. Hence Abrams announcing before the release of TROS that it would 'wrap up' the Skywalker saga.

    Whether people see this as a positive or a negative is up to the individual.
     
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  14. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
    1030th Junior * (Mod)

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    "It's a good story told badly" sloppy execution is what makes TROS falter for me.

    TROS, feels like a rushed retcon... RJ's TLJ was so dark in parts, I could not leave the theater, I sat until the credits were over... a dark tale, which he executed very well IMHO, in ROTJ/TLJ the throne room scenes are so dark and gripping...
    Kylo/Ben fights the Knights of Ren perfectly mirrors the throne room sequence from TLJ. I disagree with this, it could have mirrored the throne room scenes if executed well... IMHO.

    Rey confronting her Dark side doppelgänger is what I may have wanted more of... I have the black series figure to pay homage to execution done well.

    I do agree, TROS isn't entirely bad, I'd give it a 5 or 6 out of 10. Just like TPM and AOTC which have a few problems with execution in terms of direction and pace. TROS falls in that category as well.

    The ending was good, Rey returning to the Lars Homestead... I desperately want to see her journey continue on the big screen.

    Which is not to say there aren't obvious problems. As many have already pointed out
    Finn and Rose really needed to be involved in rallying the galaxy to finish their arcs. I think it would have been better if, after the alien marketplace sequence, Finn and Rose go off with Lando for a B plot to accomplish this. I think the problem was Abrams a)really wanted Rey, Poe, and Finn to be together for as much of the film as possible and b) he was more focused on following up the ex-stormtrooper part of Finn rather than the Resistance hero part. Either way, it's an obvious failing of the film.

    I agree with this, Finn swiftly being appointed Poe's right hand man or given the title of General completely goes over my head.

    if you look past the sloppy execution then TRoS to me was clearly the result of people sitting down and trying to follow up TLJ in a way that would wrap up the sequel trilogy and the saga to that point. Their hearts and heads were in the right place, the film just needed more time.

    I agree with this, we will be debating TROS for years to come... even after the next installment.

    Let us all do it in a warmhearted manner, we are all fans here, let's all respect each other by displaying amiable discussions.

    I had a few problems quoting the poster I apologize in advance for the bright yellow highlights
     
    #414 Rogues1138, Sep 25, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    This is great stuff. I will say the one the TROS does well for me is end the story in such a way that I still want more from Finn/Rey/Poe. In some ways TROS is kind of like the same ending at ROTJ. I have many of the same questions I had for decades. How does the Jedi Order get rebuilt? Luke failed in that regard. What can Rey to rebuild it? What about the temple on Coruscant? Palps turned it into his palace, but shouldn't it return to the Jedi?
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I always interpreted the Jedi temple as a visual metaphor representing their hypocrisy. They prided themselves on being defenders of the people, but deliberately lived apart from them, above them, literally looking down on them from an ivory tower.

    I like the idea much more of Rey, the Jedi, defending the people while nomadically living among them. The temple is just a building. A building on a planet entirely ingulfed in artificiality. But the Force is everywhere. It’s nature itself. Her temple is anywhere she happens to find herself. Meh, sounds nice to me at any rate :)
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I love this, but the temple had been there for thousands of years. The hypocrisy of the Jedi was real, but that was at their end. The Jedi did a lot of good for very long time. Working to restore what was lost would be important. Or maybe not.
     
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I absolutely agree. And if the Jedi can be redeemed, then why not the structure that symbolized them? I’d love it if the location itself, which was darkly twisted (off-screen), could be rehabilitated to once again being a place of hope and comfort. Some sort of sanctuary of sorts. Wouldn’t necessarily have to be tied to the Jedi, but still jive with that spirit of charity. A social works or something. I don’t know. Maybe that’s where liberated FO Stormtroopers would go to be reunited with their families or something. Just spit-balling.

    The origin of Coruscant is pretty interesting. It started out as the proposed Imperial home world, Had Abbadon, for ROTJ. The concept for the planet was that, like Vader, it had been entirely overtaken by mechanization and artificiality: a metaphor for evil devouring one’s humanity. The more mechanical, the less human and the less humane. For George to decide to put the Jedi temple THERE of all places - the least spiritual setting possible, I feel was deliberate. That maybe, like the order itself, it made sense at one point, but now had simply become indistinguishable from the systematized landscape. Or . . . something like that.

    I’m really looking forward to future storytelling that goes back there at some point. Post OT. Post ST. There’s so much meat on that bone.
     
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    For me the darkest moment in the saga is what Vader does at the temple. The destruction of the Jedi and the younglings especially. As a nine episode story the Skywalker element dominates the overall story about the fall of the Jedi. It would be nice if future stories focus more on the order itself.
     
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  20. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Okay, this is what I read; so don't shoot the messenger if it turns out to be inaccurate.

    Daisy Ridley and John Boyega are very good friends, and apparently were very disappointed that they didn't get to see more of each other while making TLJ. Boyega also wanted Finn to be Force sensitive. It's already known that Poe Dameron was slated to be killed off in TFA but Abrams let the character live because Oscar Isaac asked him to.


    It is believed that Ridley and Boyega were absolutely delighted to be working together again. Ridley said she 'cried' on hearing Abrams had taken over from Trevorrow. She was asked if 'Rey was in love with Ben Solo' shortly before the release of TROS and her response was: 'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend'. Therefore a lot of people are convinced that both Finn suddenly becoming Force sensitive and Rey ending the film a singleton committed to the Jedi code of no attachments was because it was what the actors wanted.

    As I said before, I've no idea if these are accurate or just unfounded rumours, but it could account for why the threesome of Rey, Finn and Poe had so much screentime together rather than 'going off and doing their own thing' like they did, in my opinion with success, in TLJ.

    And yes it's nice everyone here is having such civil conversations, some other forums are borderline toxic these days.
     
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