What's the point of this trilogy?

What do you think about this?
https://thedirect.com/article/star-wars-rey-kylo-ren-meeting

 

Had we seen ANY "calling out" from a lightsaber prior to TFA? To my knowledge, no. But by the same token, we'd never seen someone exhibit advanced Jedi traits without any training either. So -- like them or not -- fans were being introduced to some new concepts.

So it's quite natural for SW fans to consider this new 'lightsaber call out' to be tied to Rey's mysterious lineage. We've seen 'swords' used to identify lineage in the King Arthur stories, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, and countless other medieval and fantasy tales. This connection is further reinforced in TFA when Rey is able to connect with it when faced with a lightsaber-wielding Kylo Ren in the snow.

THIS! ^^^^^

 

I don't think that it not happening on screen previously is really relevant. Nevertheless, we did have the force converge around a tree/cave on Dagobah. Why not have it converge around a lightsaber that has significance in this story?

Also, a few moments prior to this, Han Solo offered Rey a weapon of his and a job with him and Chewie. Rey rejected both the blaster from Han and the lightsaber. I remember at the time thinking that these rejections and Rey being shown to succeed (somewhat) with both weapons were an indication that she's related to neither but is a kindred spirit of both. Or rather it was being argued by some with reasoning that was completely sound. (besides the morally questionable idea that she had been abandoned on Jakku by either Han or Luke, yuck.)

Actually, the display of Jedi traits is literally what Qui Gon recognizes in Anakin in the first episode in this saga. And Luke was "already" the best bush pilot in the outer rim at such a young age thanks to his force ability.

Anyway. Nowhere is it stated that people cannot display ability or strength with the force without Jedi training. Jedi training is what Jedi take to become Jedi knights.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 22, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 22, 2022 ---

You do know that the whole premise for the movie TFA is that everyone is desperate to find Luke Skywalker right? Using the same logic of "it's Luke's saber so its significance is that Rey is Luke's daughter" you might as well just say that Rey finding the droid with the map to Luke (or what they think it's a map to Luke) is just as obvious a tease that she's related to Luke as the lightsaber is.

Johnson was absolutely right that the possibility that Rey is Luke's daughter and has a destiny laid out for her similar to her own father's, to be played out in a way not dissimilar to how Luke's did, was the basic idea that almost every Star Wars fan entertained right away without being prompted by anything. She's clearly the main character of the trilogy, like Luke was. Anakin was the main character in his trilogy (supposedly it was all Anakin's saga but we won't get into that now). The math seems obvious. Main character + Force strength = son/daughter of the previous trilogy's main character. The obvious "teases" that the sequel trilogy was faithfully following the perceived formula come off as classic confirmation bias from the perspective of someone who doesn't get so invested in their own predictions and projections and doesn't unduly get their hopes up of where the story should be going next.

 

Dave Filoni has been quoted as saying in The Art of the Mandalorian 2 that when he first talked to George Lucas about the plan to introduce a Yoda-like character named Grogu, he said the one point George was adamant with him about is that if he's going to exhibit Jedi powers he has to have had Jedi training.

Hmmm...I wonder why GL was so adamant with Dave at the time about this point?

 

"Jedi powers"?

I think what you mean is that Grogu, who is the only force user seen in the show at that point, displaying behaviours of a Jedi, which includes using the force in certain ways, needs to have been exposed to these practices. Just like Rey attempts and then succeeds at each Force power that she's exposed to once she meets Kylo Ren, including mind tricks, mind probes, force kinesis, etc. She doesn't do anything that she hasn't already seen someone else do or had done to her.

 

He needed Jedi training -- which he was receiving prior to Order 66.

That's far from Jedi training.

 

If he was going to behave like a Jedi. Just about anyone can fire a gun. But that doesn't mean you know how to behave the way a trained soldier does.

I never said it was "Jedi training". Being a Jedi and using the force are related but not the same thing.

If someone tells you to put your elbow on the table then suddenly clasps your hand and pushes it down onto the table. Then they tell you to put your elbow on the table, whether they intended to or not, they've just given you "Arm wrestler powers". This time you are somewhat more prepared for what's going to happen and you will no doubt be pushing back. Who knows, maybe you got a natural ability for this and at the second go you pull the joker right over. It doesn't mean you've gone through professional arm wrestling training. But you have, through exposure, discovered that you have that ability. Every ability that Rey displays in The Force Awakens, that she hadn't displayed before, is discovered in this way.

Jedi training is accumulating knowledge of the myriad other techniques that one might need in one's duties and being able to perform them at will with 100% success, and to use the power of the force responsibly, ethically, consistently and so on.

 

Something that makes me wonder about the ST is the Prime Jedi mosaic. It very vaguely resembles Snoke (as obviously it could be any number of other aliens).

My question about it is what were the designers of the Prime Jedi thinking when they created and finalized it. Did they mean for it to look somewhat like Snoke? Obviously it's not Snoke, but I'm wondering if at some point in the development of the ST -- did some creators throw out the theory or idea that Snoke (or someone perhaps of his lineage) was the Prime Jedi.

I say someone of his lineage, because Snoke would have to be even more ancient than presumed (before the revelation he was a Sidious creation) to have been the first ever Jedi.

 

There's no indication that they intended for the mosaic too represent or hint at Snoke in any way, shape, or form. (Personally, I don't see anything resembling Snoke in the mosaic, other than the basic humanoid-ish shape).

The image was made to invoke the yin/yang symbol (according to Seth Engstrom, the concept artist), with the concept of a prime/first Jedi going back to TPM pre-production, for which it was never used. There's nothing to suggest the mosaic is anything but Jedi religious artwork to make the space look more interesting; basically scene dressing.

That the Prime Jedi artwork could represent Snoke is an interesting (and pretty wild) idea, but there isn't anything to suggest or back that idea up.
And I honestly can't see how the image, in any way, resmbles Snoke.

 

@Angelman I guess it's just suggestibility by the humanoid shaped head on the Prime Jedi, on why I think they look somewhat similar. That and the mystique that was behind Snoke in the first two ST films. Again, I agree it's no splitting image.
Regardless, the Prime Jedi mosaic is compelling and I hope he (or she) is someone we learn more about in future canon projects.

 

I just assumed it was a reference to classic depictions of Buddha.

 

Now, I wish they had used your avatar.

This was the pic that I never knew I needed.​

 

The mosaic to me represented a different kind of Force user...not the 'pure' evil of the Sith, or the dogmatic good of the Jedi, but something along the Grey Jedi.

A lot of reylos - myself included - thought that Rey and Kylo would bring a 'balance to the Force' through creating a new era where there is true balance ...rather than being divided into extremes. The mosaic showed a kind of 'yin and yang', a Darksider with the potential for good, a Lightsider with a tendency for 'darkness'...and that only by a union between the two would there be true peace. When the Force itself was balanced the eternal conflict between the Light and the Dark would finally end.

Even if you weren't a 'reylo' this was a good idea going forward.

I am absolutely sure that this was something considered by DLF. At the beginning of the TROS novelization there was a poem which used the words:

The difference they say, will only made right, by the resolving of grey through refined Jedi sight.

Notice too...the costumes worn by Rey and Kylo in TLJ. Rey wore grey (ooh...that rhymes) - not white. Kylo's black costume was threaded with gold. Look at how costumes were used in the OT. Luke started out in white, representing his naive youth, then beige, where he was starting to struggle with his 'darker' impulses, and finally...in ROTJ he wore black...but the lining of his costume was white, showing that ultimately he would triumph over those dark impulses.

The end of TLJ, as I've said before, seemed to be setting up a different conflict in part IX...where there weren't any truly 'good' or 'bad' guys, and where the enemy really is war itself.

Unfortunately, I think the reaction of the likes of the 'Fandom Menace' put Disney off going in this direction. I think there were other reasons as well, but I don't know if I'm allowed to put them down here.

 

My first smarmy thought was, "Holy Bantha Fodder, Palpatine!! OUR THEORIES DID SUCK!! RJ is a mad lad after all! We're gonna see the Sith no one knew existed, DARTH FREAKING PLAGUEIS!!!!! ARRRRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH you read-day LUUUUUUUUUUKE!?!?!?!"



And then the rest of the movie happened

 

You know, I was reading an interview with Rian Johnson, and he said 95% of his film was on screen but not all of it...Jason Frye, who wrote the novel, also said that they made him 'alter the ending' at the last moment.

I'd love to know how they originally intended to end it.

But most of all...I really, really would love to know why they suddenly recalled the original Art book for TROS, then put back the release of the revised edition until after Xmas. Very curious about that one.

 

For me, the ending wasn't the worst aspect of his film.

 

But...she does. She uses a Jedi mind trick.
Kylo probed her mind, she probed back. At the end, it's hinted that she beat him by a combination of reading his mind (and borrowing his fighting skills), and also because he was weakened by the bowcaster wound he'd received from Chewie plus his own shame at killing his father.
Kylo never used a Jedi mind trick on Rey - and it's not an easy skill to master; Luke didn't use it until ROTJ, remember? He was a fully fledged Jedi by then, and had been trained by Yoda, a master.
Some people speculated that Rey was a Kenobi because of this, as it was a favourite trick of his, or even better - that Rey at some time had had Jedi training and her memory erased. Of all the things she could 'magically do' without training, the mind trick is the hardest to explain.

 

I agree that they’re visually presented as two distinctly different things, but for continuity’s sake we’re supposed to interpret them as the same thing. Kylo’s ‘mind probe’ is a ‘mind trick’. The presentation itself doesn’t jive with that, making it pretty piss poor staging, but that was the intent. Rey does to the Storm Trooper what Kylo had done to her. That’s the internal justification.

The degree of difficulty behind any Force power is largely determined by plot demand. Probably best not to invest more reasoning than the author did.

 

He did. You're splitting hairs.

Luke didn't use the Jedi mind trick until ROTJ because the story didn't call for it before. It was useful to use it then to illustrate that Luke is beginning to emulate his old master. It does not confirm its "difficulty" level.

How exactly does one train at mind tricks? Who do you mind trick?

 

Fair opinion, but at the end of the day, Rey had had ZERO training and Luke had. Yes, you can come up with all sorts of reasons as to how she escaped Starkiller and beat Kylo Ren...but compare her to Luke. His first duel with his father, and he lost brutally. Rey won, brutally. Rey pulls a skill acquired by Jedi training ...out of thin air.
Rey succeeds in killing Palpatine on her own...neither Luke, Anakin or even Yoda could do that. And before anyone says that it killed her...DLF later backtracked and said 'she wasn't quite dead' at the end afterwards.

It's a great shame because in their eagerness to present a female heroine to the GA, they overdid it and instead gave us a character so ridiculously overpowered it was hard to take her seriously. Which was a shame as Daisy herself is charming and engaging, and Rey could have been so different. But when you compare her to Luke, she isn't anywhere near as complex and as relatable as he was.