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What's the point of this trilogy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by DailyPlunge, Mar 3, 2018.

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What's the point of this trilogy?

  1. A young woman's path to becoming a Jedi

    6 vote(s)
    7.1%
  2. The redemption of Ben Solo

    14 vote(s)
    16.5%
  3. The birth of the new Jedi Order

    7 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. We'll cross that bridge when we get there!

    38 vote(s)
    44.7%
  5. Other

    20 vote(s)
    23.5%
  1. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    A lot of filmmakers will claim a movie is 'written' at least three times. Once with the screenplay, once with the filming, and once with the editing. In all stages, static rigidity is your enemy. To allow a project to become what it needs to be, you have to allow it to evolve organically while it’s developing. Having a fixed roadmap from start to finish hurts more than it helps. You find yourself having to make the story fit a mold instead of permitting the story to follow its own natural progression.

    That’s not to say you shouldn’t have an outline - a general direction to provide focus and avoid ambling. But a narrative is a series of choices. What you thought would make the most sense at inception, might not be the case once you’re underway. Each choice sends you on a different path and your framework needs to be flexible enough to enable that divergence.

    That being said, I feel LFL’s approach (overall) maybe wasn’t the best. What makes the most sense to me would have been to develop this tryptic as one contiguous story. Write it all at once. Film it all at once. Then go back through and edit it all together in a cohesive manner. That, of course, would have been a far greater undertaking though - committing cast & crew and taking much longer to be released, delaying the immediate ROI. But that’s how I’d have preferred it.
     
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  2. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I think probably that was what JJ and Kasdan did at some point, write an outline of where the story could go after TFA, but when RJ took the batton, he decided to concentrate in the story he wanted to tell, which was probably not at odds with JJ’s and Kasdan’s planted ideas but at the same not bowing to them. In spite of this change of direction, TLJ felt organic not only to TFA but also to ESB, which is TLJ’s equivalent in the OT. TLJ moved the story in an unexpected direction, as much as ESB moved from the relatively simple story presented in ANH. The shift in the story and tone are very similar for both trilogies.

    My only problem with TLJ, tone wise, is the self referential humour, a bit too jarring and clever for my liking. With some bits I’ve changed my mind though. I absolutely hated Luke’s saber toss the first time I saw it. I would have preferred a somewhat classier reaction from Luke. But with more viewings I’ve learnt to see a bit of crazy Yoda in Luke in that scene and understand that bit for what it was. RJ did came up with some great referential gems like that, which I have only got to understand after viewing ESB again.
     
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  3. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I agree in concept. I thought that moment was pretty hysterical though. But probably not for the right reasons. Not because it was funny in and of itself, but because of how many people I was sure were going to be pissed about it. “Hey, is this what you’ve been waiting two years for? Well, whacka whacka! That’s what you get for caring so much, nerds.” I doubt that’s really what was intended, but that’s how it played for me - meta humor. It did make sense for the character, but simply having Luke reject the saber to start with would have been the more sensible approach.
    Johnson approached TLJ in much the same way Lucas did with ESB I think. The middle chapter would be about conflict. The best conflict comes from confronting your characters with their greatest personal challenges - what would be the hardest thing for them to have to deal with: Leia, being vulnerable. Han, being a protector. Luke, being detached. Vader, being human. They’re forced into these situations and have to respond. Their individual responses then create the drama and invoke our personal investment.

    Not all of what RJ did in TLJ landed with me, but I think that’s just a matter of subjective taste. Conceptually, I think it all works. His particular choices weren’t largely for me though.
     
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  4. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I don't think this trilogy ever had an outline. I understand that even with an outline, writers will eventually change certain aspects as the story goes along. I don't see this in the Sequel Trilogy. I just see chaos and incompetency.
     
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  5. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    At the vaguest level, the ST does seem to have at least a rudimentary arrangement: finding the door, opening the door, walking through the door. That is: discovering your purpose, embracing your purpose, and (presumably) fulfilling your purpose.

    Take Rey as an example: TFA has her discovering that she possesses this innate power, the Force. She rejects it at first, but ultimately accepts it as a part of herself. Part of her purpose. She ‘found her door’. In TLJ, she’s trying to unearth meaning in it. She thinks it’s something that connects her to the hero of the story. That it’s her purpose to bring him back to save the day. When that fails, she tries another option: his fallen apprentice. When that also fails, she begins to see a different path. Maybe she’s the hero of this story. She ‘opened her door’. If EPIX follows suit, Rey’s journey would conclude in her fulfilling her purpose by becoming the very hero figure she was searching for. She’d have ‘walked through her door’.

    Elementarily though, that’s just ‘the hero’s journey’ and not really a grander unifying theme. Unless that IS the theme. Hell, I’m just blathering.
     
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  6. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    I think the original point of the films was to "do Star Wars properly". Remember when Simon Pegg declared TFA to be the first great Star Wars film since 1983? That seemed to be the mentality behind the new trilogy, to somehow make people forget about the prequels. It all seemed very desperate, with an overt focus on location filming and practical effects and using film instead of digital. For every step forward that George Lucas had made, this new crowd of filmmakers wanted to jump ten steps back, all with the intention of making the audience feel like it was 1977 all over again.

    In the TFA documentary, one of the crew comments that the only way to make a Star Wars film was to use practical effects. That kind of knuckle-headed attitude indicated to me that this was just a nostalgia trip and that the revolutionary approach to filmmaking, typified by George Lucas in the six films that had gone before, was to be ditched in favour of glove puppets and rubber masks.
     
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  7. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Rebel Official

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    Disney movie use plenty of cgi.
    Besides, TFA was made back in the Prequel-hating days, so it's only natural that they wanted to follow the movies everybody loved, rather than those everybody hated. Of course, now that the hating switched to TLJ, the PT seems to be much more appreciated.
     
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  8. Daft Ada

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    I know there's plenty of CGI in TFA. But they played it down to appease the so-called haters. And the prequels were not universally hated. Far from it.
     
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  9. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel General

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    I was one of the few braves souls that defended the PT back then so 10+ years of defending the PT tells me a different story. The same people who said, "you're a fake SW fan" for liking the ST were the same fans who told me I was a fake fan for liking the PT. Read any online post pre-2012, you'll see a different story. I couldn't read one comment without some dude spouting out RLM crap which started the bandwagon of PT haters.
     
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  10. Daft Ada

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    I wouldn't equate such idiotic comments as "you're a fake fan" with the majority opinion when it comes to the prequel trilogy. Opinions on Star Wars are (thankfully) not solely the province of folk who post on internet forums.
     
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  11. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    Location filming and practical sets and effects will always look better the video gamey overblown CGI of the prequels. It wasn't a step back. It was a return to what worked well vs. something that didn't work well. George Lucas became obsessed with CGI that he used it as the answer for everything regardless of how bad it looked vs. real people, sets and effects.
     
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  12. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    Perhaps, instead of cutting and pasting other peoples' ill-informed comments on the prequels, you should research your subject matter first. Ergo, there are more practical effects in one single prequel film than there are in episodes four-to-six. And that statement comes from the people who worked on all six films.

    MOD EDIT
     
    #92 Daft Ada, Sep 2, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2018
  13. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    PerhAPS YOU SHOULD ASTOP
    I'm well-aware of what went into the making of those films. So you can keep the pretentious comments to yourself. I've seen every bit of behind-the-scenes footage made available. I've read many accounts of the productions. I know the opinion of people who worked on the films, such as the principal actors who expressed how difficult it was to work on primarily blue screens, calling it a "nightmare."

    "The effects are clever but pointless. The skill is there, but so what? Coldness, that’s the word. Bleakness, even. It became clear early on that with J.J. we were getting back to the old-fashioned kind of filmmaking. We have walls. Actual sets!” - Anthony Daniels.

    There is no denying that regardless of what may have been done practically, the films used massive amounts of CG to excess, to the point were everything looked artificial and video-gamey. They couldn't even be bothered to film people in clonetrooper costumes, even in close-up shots, and they look terrible.
     
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  14. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel General

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    Tell that to the TLJ haters..lol
     
  15. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel General

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    Not to hate on the sequel trilogy, but I much preferred the marketing of the prequels, in which George stated (even before the release of TPM) that the deeper meaning was how any good person can succumb to evil. This could be seen played out nicely from I to III.
    The sequel trilogy? I am truly unsure on what the overall message is. From what I can decipher thus far, it is “fall of an empire and redeeming a bad guy,” exactly what the OT was about if you think about it.
     
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  16. Jack_Forest

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    Finding your place seems to be the most common theme of character arcs in both TFA and TLJ. As for the empire and redeeming - we'll have to see how Ep.IX will play out. Maybe they'll decide to just kill off Kylo Ren and keep the First Order around for future movies.
     
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  17. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel General

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    I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. Look at all these Marvel movies, which boast wonderfully-realized CGI and exotic world building somewhat; its level of detail and imagination overshadows the new Star Wars films. Why can’t our favorite series look this grand and cool again? Hopefully things will change starting with John Favrou’s show.
     
    #97 Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi, Sep 10, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I honestly don't think that Disney/Lucasfilm/Kathleen Kennedy/JJ/Rian Johnson has even entertained the idea of a 'greater theme/arc' for the Trilogy, even if JJ said he will tie all of the movies together. I see this happen alot on TV these days and its what seperates the great shows and the good shows, IMO. It is very hard to write a movie trilogy/multiple season TV show with a narrative that has a consistent arc/theme, as many writers just don't have the talent to do it in a way that is of good quality.

    I have no hope that Episode 9 will tie this all together, in terms that we will be able to look at the ST just as we did with the OT/PT arc/theme. I think they are literally making these movies on the fly (just like 99% of the blockbusters in Hollywood) and good is good enough to them. As many mentioned here, Disney/Lucasfilm's original goal was to replicate the OT as much as they could with the new movies in terms of the look and feel, but they forgot that the storyline, character development, theme, arc is just as or even more important.

    So ironically, the PT wasn't executed as well as many wish but the story/arc is really good. The ST is better executed, but the storyline is unoriginal and not as interesting or deep.
     
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  19. Jack_Forest

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    Star Wars needs to move away from being stuck in the OT nostalgia. Go to the Unknown Regions, or back in timeline, or forward in timeline - anything would work. I think the question is - would the "fans" accept new and modern-looking Star Wars?
     
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  20. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    A new and unfamiliar version of Star Wars was what I, and everyone I know, wanted from the beginning---not more of the OT, or even anything featuring the OT characters (if we could help it): we wanted completely new era, an original and creative conflict, and new characters. Imagine my shock and horror when I realized how much of this series would be stuck in its own obsession of aggressively homaging and reproducing elements from the OT, in every aspect except execution.

    And because of that (and a mountain of other factors), the films completely lost my investment and my ability to take them seriously. Thus, I retreated to Star Wars Rebels and the old EU, where actual creativity and substance were.
     
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