What's the point of this trilogy?

Pretty sure you could still do that AND present an original set of circumstances though, yeah? The premise of a new generation, picking up the pieces where the prior one left them, and making good on the promises they made, doesn’t require nearly identical conditions. It doesn’t preclude them either, but it wasn’t obligatory. They could have done both, but chose not to. Know what I mean?

 

I said the same about Solo. Personally never a character that I cared about beyond what we got. Obi Wan I've always loved. I can never get enough. So that's just my take. But if you notice I offered the possibility of an Ahsoka Tano film as well. I'm not married to the idea of an Obi Wan stand alone, and I was really intrigued by the idea of James Mangold doing a "bounty hunter" film but they trashed that idea for now so oh well.

Looking back I'd say they should do a lead up to the D&D trilogy assuming it's set back in, say, the Old Republic era, but that's probably not happening either.

 

As you know, I tend to look at these things more for the motifs and metaphors than the literal, sooo....here's my swing at this.

Prequel:
MORAL: Conversion of Good to Evil, Fall of Good, Rise of Evil
OF NATURE: Smothering and misuse of Nature because caused from over idolization of nature.

Original:
MORAL: Conversion of Evil to Good, Rise of Good, Fall of Evil
OF NATURE: Separation from and neglect of Nature caused from over idolization of man.

Sequel:
MORAL: Conversion of Evil to Good, Rise of Good and Evil, Conversion of Good to Evil, Fall of Good and Evil.
OF NATURE: Twisting of Nature to one's will and also an Over-Trust IN Nature simultaneously. The first is caused from hatred OF the Natural order that is not of one's wants and is distrusted, while the latter is caused from an overly admired and childish view OF what Nature is - that if it's of Nature, it's safe.

The point of this sequel is to reverse and balance everything out to zero null sum.

That seems to be the way it's headed, but I don't really know.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

That makes sense. Thanks. You have a fondness for the character and just want more of him. Cool. I can get behind that

The idea I can’t wrap my head around is the folks with expectations for what this movie would be - the assorted elevator pitches I’ve heard with laundry lists of potentialities that surely would have to be involved. That seems like more setup to disappointment to me. Y’know? What if what LFL thinks an Obi-Wan movie should be has nothing at all to do with what THEY think an Obi-Wan movie should be? Would they still be happy? They just want the character regardless of what that looks like? Or does this open the door to yet more disaffected bemoaning “this ruined my childhood” nonsense? That’s more where I’m coming from.

It’s not that I’m uninterested in delving more into the character, I just have no desire to see it on the big screen. When it was rumored not that long ago it might get shopped to the streaming service instead, that was the first moment I took legitimate notice. That’s where I think projects like this would be more at home. If a ‘Star Wars Story’, by its nature, doesn’t lend itself to spectacle or bombast, then I’d rather stay home to watch it. But that’s me.

Anyway, in a bid to try and relate this back to the topic, I’m looking forward to LFL someday refocusing on developments that aren’t nested in this familiar branch of the OT. Their exploration of new and original ideas and concepts within a framework of unique and inventive circumstances in this galaxy. I don’t want this brand to become common and unremarkable to the point I start loosing interest.

 

I dont disagree either. It's just kinda meh as a movie. I feel like there's only so much you can show me I havent seen in a Star Wars movie when you keep showing me the same 6 characters in the same 2 time frames.

 

RJ is not a director but he plays one on TLJ.

 

Directed by RJ:
- Evil Demon Golf Ball From Hell
- Ben Boyer and the Phenomenology of Automobile Marketing
- The Psychology of Dream Analaysis
- Brick
- The Mountain Goats: Woke Up New
- Brother's Bloom
- Terries (1 Episode)
- Looper
- Breaking Bad (3 Episodes)
- The Last Jedi
- LCD Soundsystems: Oh Baby
- Knives Out

Yeah, he's definitely not a director...

 

Making money.....

No matter the debate on which new films are good or bad, there is no doubt it was a good move by Disney to purchase Star Wars. So far its been very successful in generating money, with only 1 film in 4 not meeting expectations.

 

I’d say... when it comes to special/visual effects, Lucas was a pioneer.
Not doubt.
And he wanted to be a pioneer with the PT too.
Too many people forget that TPM precedes LOTR etc...
And whether or not we think there was too much of CGI in the prequels...
Still they changed how movies are made.
Sic te sempliciter.

That said, when it comes to storytelling....
He looked back. Quite a lot.
It’s the combination of these two aspects that made SW revolutionary.
And ultimately so successful.

It’s a galaxy far far away.
A tale that resonates with those of our ancestors.
To some degree, the OT itself is built on basis made of nostalgia.

And old tale, in short, told with brand new tools.

That said I wish I have the certainties come of you have.
I don’t see the point, untill now.
I am not sure there is a moral, (not that the movies are amoral but
if they are meant to address one vision, because I’m not sure the
people involved ever questioned themselves about that
and if so, if they share the same opinion.

I guess only IX will tell.

But these are not GL’s times anymore... and I am not
even sure that the adagio it rhymes, it’s like poetry
still has a meaning. If it’s useful to foresee the outcomes.
It may be, it may be not.

I’d love if that’s case.
I really do.

But even if that’s that case there are more than few ways to make the
rhymes work.

 

I find myself wishing that this trilogy was about opposing forces coming together, that the First Order had legitimate grievances and concerns and was "just" in their approach. Likewise, the New Republic would have corruption as well, but would be fighting for an equally "just" cause.

The trilogy would have then been about finding reconcilliation and harmony in the aftermath of a great conflict, burying the hatchet and finally moving forward towards lasting peace in the universe.

Of course, the way the FO has been portrayed, that's not likely to happen. As it stands, I truly have no idea what this is about thematically. Episode IX may provide more context, but so far it just feels like it's rehashing the old Empire/Rebel dynamic, which doesn't make much sense given the events of RotJ. I guess we'll see when the last film comes out.

 

It's actually this way, at least in the books... Haha! Both parties think they're doing the right thing.

Finding balance within the force I guess. Between the dark and the light side. Or it's about "becoming a family".

 

But isn't that what the OT was about? Anakin, in VI, finally achieves his destiny and brings the force into balance.

 

Only if you include the PT, but if you take the OT after its release, then there are other themes. At least in my opinion.

ANH - becoming a hero and facing evil
TESB - failure and revelations
ROTJ - redemption and defeating evil

Balance was never talked about in the OT.

 

No, but one could see it as being "implied." The balance is towards the dark side in A New Hope. By the end, the darkness is destroyed and the light is not exactly predominant, but in the ascendent. At the very least it did appear to be a story, by the end, of not only the completion of Luke's "hero's journey" but a story about the redemption of his father.

The OT was being made on the fly. No doubt there is a ton of stuff that was retconned, added thanks to the PT. I just don't see what this new trilogy is trying to achieve. I really wish I saw something, but I don't. Family? Well, not really. Our main protagonist is, supposedly, no one. Balance? Maybe, but so far I don't see that.

I think the major mistake was made in having three different directors and three different writers come in "and do their own thing." While Lucas didn't have the entire saga mapped out (even though he said he did at various points in the late 1970s), at least the OT had a guiding hand behind it, moving it forward. I really hope JJ can bring this one home and make this feel like the ST wasn't just a money grab. At this point it isn't feeling like that will happen, but I always have hope.

 

What is the definition of 'Family'?

Remember Solo:

Han: "He's searching for his, uh...I don't know if he said tribe or family."
Beckett: "What's the difference?"

The hero's journey is a story of self-definition, which would include who one's tribe is and/or how one relates to family. Joseph Campbell would say how one relates to one's community and role/leadership within the community. 'Tribe' or 'community' is more relevant in a modern world where people are either moving into their parents basements (nothing wrong with that) or moving away but putting off marriage and starting a family for longer and longer.

Anakin is always searching for a father figure, and picked the wrong one.
Luke is searching for his father, and is surprised to find who his father is...also, kisses his sister.
------
Rey finds a family that isn't necessarily her biological one, but that doesn't matter, because she embraces it, from Han to Finn to Leia to Poe ("I know who you are.")
Kylo is trying to destroy the family he has ("You had a father who loved you.") in order to find some misdirected identity, repeating Anakin's mistake. And this trilogy is telling the story of those two (which could be construed as a story of balance, which is more pronounced in TLJ via Luke and Snoke).

And even if we relate the series to GL himself: The OT Is Lucas dealing with his father's wishes (to take over the family business - I believe it was a stationery store?), the PT is GL becoming the corporation itself, and now the ST is the kids of the Creator (the filmmakers who worshiped at GL/SW's altar) trying to handle this magical boondoggle of Star Wars and fandom. (MovieBob has a great YouTube vid about Luke/Rey regarding this).

 

For me movies are about the story, the (believable) characters and their development, the pacing, the world i am sucked in, most importantly the athmosphere, overall the movie having a soul. The new trilogy has none of those redeeming qualities. In tfa, i feel like the movie has no art of it´s own, is never alive of
art-enabling import, is perverting certain concepts. Tlj was just bad. As long as the art of making movies was magical, the movie-makers trying to be original, bringing new stuff, e.g. George Lucas and others creating Star Wars, the movie world seemed alright to me. Even in a established universe or world, it is possible to bring new stories, heck there is fandom which is quite interesting. Nowadays it´s hard to find a movie made with love and with a soul.

 

I've been highly critical of the ST so far, as have others, and I think rightfully so. Having said that, I can't imagine the immense amount of pressure to get it right, and the difficulty of dealing with that. It has to be hard as heck, especially considering the fact that Disney, in what I still think was the blunder of the century, insisted on having films come out almost immediately (December of 2015). The second mistake was to almost completely discard Lucas' treatments. IF he was going for some weird "microbiological" story then they did make the right move. However, having done that, they then left very little time for the creators to come up with a totally new story, one that was fully fleshed out. To do that right takes time. The more depth you have, the more time. Heck, look how long it takes Martin to write one of the Song of Ice and Fire books now. There is so much depth and complexity to the story, one can't just churn it out.

I'm not asking for that amount of depth and complexity, but giving JJ and LK what, one year to work out a story, is just NOT enough time. Oh well. I really hope JJ can tie it all together and bring this bad boy home. End the ST with a bang and we can move on to complaining about something else for a time.