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What's the point of this trilogy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by DailyPlunge, Mar 3, 2018.

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What's the point of this trilogy?

  1. A young woman's path to becoming a Jedi

    10 vote(s)
    8.8%
  2. The redemption of Ben Solo

    18 vote(s)
    15.9%
  3. The birth of the new Jedi Order

    10 vote(s)
    8.8%
  4. We'll cross that bridge when we get there!

    53 vote(s)
    46.9%
  5. Other

    22 vote(s)
    19.5%
  1. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    While Lucas was making the OT up as he went along (mostly because he made the Original as a standalone with the possibility of more movies) HE was the sole vision in terms of the big picture story. So while Lucas changed Vader/Luke/Leia being related after 1977, he did it for a reason in evolving the story into a family drama about his kids redeeming their father.

    What bothers me about the ST is that JJ or Rian Johnson should have been the lone vision of the Trilogy. JJ created Snoke and RJ didn’t like the character so he killed him. That is different then Lucas evolving the script for something that is contradictory from a certain POV for a better payoff in part 3.

    The ST should have had one lone vision and then they could have 3 different directors to execute their style. I don’t have a problem with the execution of the ST, I have a problem with the big picture narrative/arc.
     
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  2. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    Yep. I also think they should have had the story take place over several years. Instead we got two films covering what, a couple of weeks and then a one year time jump to the last film? I think this makes the whole thing feel small and constrained. I'm still hoping JJ can somehow pull this off and make it all come together, but i would have done a 3-4 year time jump.
     
  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    You don't know that and I'm puzzled why people cite this like it's gospel.
    And there's evidence to suggest that's exactly how this was put together from the start.

    Based on what's out there it seems Lucas treatment was modified by JJ and company and a 3 episode arc was laid out. Rian Johnson had licence to tell the middle part the way he wanted as long as it didn't interfere with the major arc. Luke and Snoke aren't part of the main story here. What has happened some people are creating narrative that RJ threw away everything JJ set up and it's not the case.
     
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  4. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

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    I voted for "other" because I think this ST its a mix of a lot of things.

    - Rey and her struggles to overcome the abandonement by her parents and his path to become a Jedi.
    - Kylo and his obsession to kill the past and rule the First Order.
    - And maybe we will see in IX the rebirth of the Jedi order (or the sith order, or even a new kind of order with Kylo?)
     
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  5. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    I've really been mulling this question over. If the point of this trilogy is just Rey's journey, or the defeat of the First Order, or the rebirth of the Jedi--then why is this trilogy part of the Saga?

    The prequel trilogy: the fall of the Jedi, the rise of the empire. The original trilogy: The fall of the empire, the rebirth of the Jedi. The sequel trilogy: . . . the fall of the empire (First Order this time, sure) again? The rebirth of the Jedi again?

    By the end of TLJ, I thought we'd have a sense of the trilogy building up to something. With the current trajectory, it feels like these movies might just be another roadbump on the way to the conclusion of the original movies. If the point is just the First Order falling, or the Jedi returning, then why did this story need to be told?

    I really enjoy the sequels and I don't want to be a downer about it. But I'm really craving some sense of plot direction, some movement toward the next big event in the galaxy.
     
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  6. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    Evidently it’s to tell a story about Kylo and his loser family. Leia and Han bad parents, Luke a loser uncle.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2019 ---
    Ultimately it’s about the balance of the Force in regards to Virgin berthed Anakin. Was he or was he not the chosen one? With Snoke and Luke alive at end of ROTJ, you cannot really determine if the Force was balanced or not.

    In PT the Darkside was crippling the light and mostly diminished it, almost destroyed all its knowledgeable users (Jedi) in the galaxy through EP great power and knowledge of the Darkside. In between the PT and at the start of the OT we had the Dark side firmly in control of the galaxy with EP, DV, Maul and Snoke (maybe more) firmly in control of the galaxy channeling the dark side while the remaining knowledgeable light siders hid waiting for Anakin’s children to mature with a small few other light side users like Kanan, Ezra and Ashoka covertly operating and training on the fringes. You also had the grey force knowledgeable entities that generaly remained neutral and did not get involved in the light and dark side struggles though you must wonder if EP diminished their light side powers as well. Force users, no matter how powerful or knowledgeable no matter if the are dark, light or grey knowledgeable, must have some circle of force influence and awarness limits. Maybe the Force was only out of balance within the galaxy we have seen, only as far as EP influence could reach and even within that EP’s influence and awareness had limits.

    So now we are at the ST. What is it’s point if not to resolve questions about Anakin’s legacy as the chosen one and bringing balance to the Force.

    With Snoke, you have to wonder if it was ever balanced? Maybe it was if Luke and Snoke existing brought balance within their scope of influence. Perhaps Luke broke the balance by training lightside users? Perhaps the dark rose in Kylo to offset what Luke had done by training Jedi?

    One can speculate that Kylo and Rey now have balance in their circle of influence. Perhaps the ST will conclude with Kylo and Rey ending the cycle of Dark users and Light users and establish a new Force “religion” of learning to balance the Force, where light and dark are both learned and used in harmony rather than exclusively. As Kylo said, let the past go, the Jedi, the Sith....

    So they bring balance to their galaxy.

    This would not prevent Star Wars from continuing with other Force users from coming in from outside or even new users destabiling the balance through unbalanced knowledge and training in Force use. It would end this Saga though.
     
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  7. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Kylo/Ben will be thrown away like yesterday garbage like Han then Luke.
     
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  8. Revan7

    Revan7 Rebel Trooper

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    I agree to a degree, but feel like the TFA questions were not meaningless, they just did not have a good follow up in TLJ. JJ brought a lot to the new series and set it up to be answered as we go.

    These answers would have been answered within the following films, yet we have a Trilogy that is being passed around for money. Honestly, from what I took away is The Resistance is the group that KNOWS there is still something out there, never let their guard down because of whatever intel there was out there about the First Order. It's suppose to be a time for Peace and the Bureaucrats most likely said - we are not going to order an army to rise up against some force we really know nothing about.

    As for payment - being on the outskirts of the galaxy - which we don't know much about- could hold all the resources someone would need to bring an Armada to arms. Dissidents of the New Republic, Bounty Hunters, forcefully enlisting individuals (through kidnapping etc). The money could very well be from coffers of the Old Emperor or even of Snoke's own making. Look at Darth Plagueis and Palpatine, they came from money - same with Tarkin.


    I really disagree. I feel like it was suppose to be the beginning which equated to a lot of foreshadowing and guessing games, that fans ate up because it was like A New Hope with leaving things open ended.


    Him not doing the entire Trilogy was dumb. He had a set of ideas, created it, and yes threw it to the next guy, but I really don't feel like JJ was that careless with what he was creating.

    I'm assuming the overall question will be in the last film, like ROTJ was. We knew in ESB that there was a coming to a head, now with TLJ we saw the coming to god moment, now we get to see what actually happens when the big bad is destroyed. We can only hope JJ brings answers to some questions and is able to wrap up the Saga.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2019 ---

    Agreed. I like the concept that Luke creating a new Jedi Order caused things to become unbalanced - causing the events that have transpired. His own paranoia, his minor fall to the Dark Side, Kylo's rise, Snoke being the opposite of Luke, etc.

    Now with Rey seeing the folly that are the Jedi, but not wanting to Succumb to what she sees within Kylo, while Kylo sees the light but chooses to stay with his own emotions keeping him within the Dark Side.
     
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  9. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Clone Trooper

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    Add me to the number of people that don't understand where the story is headed. I was really hoping we'd see a story that played off of some of the themes of Episode 1 through 6, perhaps giving us some more exposition of unexplained things - namely, the virgin birth of Anakin Skywalker, while also setting up a main, over-arching villain of the entire saga, as Lucas once alluded.

    A Darth Plagueis started this whole thing story would have been far more entertaining, as would a story in which the final Skywalker of the Skywalker saga was the protagonist.

    A brother vs. sister or even cousin vs. cousin story would be much more compelling.

    I know I sound like a fan upset about not getting the story they wanted, but that's only natural when the story being presented isn't really that great.
     
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  10. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    I'm the opposite. A story about yet another lightside relative trying to redeem their darskide cousin?? (lol) is way less compelling than the story we have. I love the dynamic between Kylo and Rey. It is way less predictable. The prince who had everything and the scavenger who has nothing. I am thrilled to see how this plays out.
     
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  11. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Calling this trilogy a continuation of the Skywalkers is like calling Deep Space 9 a continuation of TNG.

    Just because DS9 had Worf & Miles O'Brian doesn't mean it's about the TNG legacy.

    Just because this Trilogy haves dying off Skywalkers in small roles & an emo brat who doesn't want to even be a Skywalker doesn't mean it's about thier legacy.

    This is the Random Person Trilogy.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    To be fair, I’m not sure how many people grasped the big picture narrative/arc of the OT before ROTJ. Hindsight’s a wonderful and tricky thing.
    Cool. Sign me up :)
     
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  13. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Yes, but Trilogies were a fairly new thing in 1983 compared to the present day blockbuster. You just took the movies as they came out back then as you had no idea where the endpoint was. You couldn’t watch them back to back to back because it took years for them to come to cable and vhs. The movies had a different context back then as they had to stand on their own.

    We knew the ST and PT were going to be a Trilogy the day it was announced. We knew it would be a 3 act play that would link to the OT so they were made with that in mind. Lucas and Disney were writing the PT and ST knowing there would be 3 movies.

    That is why I never compare anything to the OT because the OT sort of started it all regarding the blockbuster and Trilogies.
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Small roles... Luke Skywalker was pretty much the main character of TLJ. Leia should have been the main focus of IX, but unfortunately she passed away. But at least we still have Kylo Ren, the main Skywalker of this trilogy.

    A random person and her counter part => a person of legacy. Yin and Yang.
     
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  15. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Regardless of when the movies were made, I find it considerably doubtful anyone watching ANY trilogy for the first time would have a solid concept of how the overarching story would be threaded when only given 2/3 of the picture.

    The prequel narrative, for example, was conceived as a trilogy, but not even Lucas himself had a solid grasp of how he would make it all link up until the very end. There was a blueprint, a guideline, but it was constantly being tweaked and reevaluated along the way. There was a framework, but the actual story grew organically out of necessity. Maybe I’m an optimist or just delusional, but I refuse to believe this multi-BILLION dollar movie franchise, headed by one of the most successful producers of all time, was just flying blind - letting the hired talent do whatever they wanted without a plan.

    When all three movies have been released and we’ve had the time to reflect and analyze its totality, then it makes sense to judge whether it works as a trilogy or not. Otherwise, it seems premature to me. Maybe it won’t come together. Maybe it’ll wind up disjointed and unsatisfying. Too soon to tell right now.
     
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  16. Bligh

    Bligh Rebel Official

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    I think there you're somewhat right. I heard somewhere that Adam Driver knew the fate of Kylo Ren in IX whilst the Force Awakens was being filmed. I think there's more of a rough plan than people realise.
     
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  17. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    The problem is I don't trust the current generation of writers/directors to pull something like this off. The Story arc in TV/Movies is a lost art, as you really need a talented writer to pull it off. I see so many good TV shows that could be great if they went that extra mile to write an over-reaching arc to the show. The Americans is a perfect example of great TV show as they stuck with the big picture arc the whole time, and the 6 seasons has a perfect beginning, middle and ending. Then a show like Homeland which started with a big picture arc, (changed creators midway through the show) and now the show lost it's luster as each season is self-contained compared to early season where you really thought the show was going somewhere.

    Sorry, but I have NO faith in JJ to pull off some great arc that will tie the Trilogy and the Saga together. I think he will make a quality/entertaining movie (that will be liked by the masses) because that is what he does, but I have never seen in anything he has done that tells me he is an 'idea' man like Lucas, Cameron and Spielberg when writing a movie. He takes over these successful franchises, reboots them, and that's about it.
     
    #177 Jedi77-83, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  18. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Hate to bring out that can of old worms but Crylo is more of a Solo then Skywalker.

    If we accept the split personality character like Vader who "isn't a Skywalker" then Ben Solo is no longer a Solo but a "Ren".
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    The guy seems like a bit of a momma’s boy to me. I’d say he’s more an Organa than anything else :)

    Seriously though, the dude is basically Anakin2.0 - a Force powerful, pissy little wank. Just like his uncle and granddad. Definitely a Skywalker.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    If someone in Star Wars is a pissy little wank, there's like a 75% chance they are a Skywalker
     
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