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SPECULATION When did Lucas decide to make The Emperor a Force-user?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Darth Sidious, Apr 30, 2016.

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  1. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    In the first draft of ANH, Emperor Cos Dashit doesn't seem to be a Force-user. The Emperor doesn't appear in subsequent drafts of ANH, but is described as a figurehead controlled by the Viziers and Moffs in the novelization (where he's given the name "Palpatine"). ESB (the film and all drafts of the screenplay) reveals that The Emperor is a Force-user and is Vader's master, not just Vader's boss. When did Lucas decide to make The Emperor a Force-user?
     
    #1 Darth Sidious, Apr 30, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
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  2. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    Probably once he started working on the initial story for Empire before handing off writing duties to the first draft writer, Leigh Brackett.
    It's also likely after he decided to change Vader from having murdered Anakin Skywalker to being Anakin Skywalker and he wanted someone to be the reason behind Anakin's fall. But that's pure theory without any real evidence.
     
    #2 Vader_the_White, May 1, 2016
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  3. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I heard that Leigh Brackett actually came up with the father twist and came up with all of the classic moments of ESB until she died from cancer .
     
    #3 AstromechRecords, May 2, 2016
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  4. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Nope. Vader isn't Luke's father in the Brackett draft. The second draft, which Lucas wrote himself, is the first to include the father twist.
     
    #4 Darth Sidious, May 2, 2016
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  5. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I have no idea.
     
    #5 CTrent29, May 3, 2016
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  6. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    References to the Emperor in Leigh Brackett's first draft for ESB:

    LEIA

    I don’t know why you quarreled with him and ran away from him. I don’t care. All that matters is that Ovan Marekal is the most powerful man in the galaxy next to the Emperor himself…and Darth Vader. Through the his Transport Guild he controls…

    LEIA

    (ignoring his tone)

    When If the Emperor crushes the rebellion and comes to full power, how long does Ovan Marekal think his precious Guild will last? Han, we must have him on our side. You must try to win him for us.

    EMPEROR

    You are aware of the disturbance in the Force?

    DARTH VADER

    I am.

    EMPEROR

    Then you know that Skywalker is not dead. And he is more dangerous than [unreadable] I had realized. Remove him this time, Lord Vader… Or I shall remove you.

    So the first part of the script (from the POV of the Alliance) appears to portray the Emperor just as a politician craving for power compliant with the ANH novelization, but we learn later that he is, indeed, a Force user.
     
    #6 Lt. Hija, May 4, 2016
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  7. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    I like the idea that the ANH novelization is how the average person in the GFFA perceives the Emperor while what we see ROTJ is the reality of the Emperor. Also, going by his voice in the original version of ESB, I wonder if Lucas intended him to be Force-using but still Nixonian in 1980 but then the election of Reagan made the American public view the world as absolute good vs. absolute evil and Watergate faded away, so when making ROTJ, Lucas instead made the Emperor a cackling personification of evil.
     
    #7 Darth Sidious, Jul 27, 2016
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi General

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    No idea about this, he hasn't talk about it. I guess he didn't feel fans wanted to know.
     
    #8 Grand Master Galen Marek, Jul 27, 2016
  9. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    Considering his revisionist tendencies, he likely would claim that Palpatine was always planned to be a Force user.
     
    #9 Vader_the_White, Jul 27, 2016
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi General

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    That would a be good choice, GL always follows his visions & they transformed Sidious into a complete villain.
     
    #10 Grand Master Galen Marek, Jul 27, 2016
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  11. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    I don't think you understood what I meant. Lucas has a tendency to lie about the past when it comes to Star Wars and that his current ideas were the same as his original, when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.
     
    #11 Vader_the_White, Jul 28, 2016
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  12. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Case in point: the sequel trilogy. :)
     
    #12 tm0910196, Jul 28, 2016
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  13. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    The original script is out there on the internet, even with a fun Vader dinner scene. She had ideas, but didn't use them, and played up the love triangle a lot in the script she wrote. GL asked for Gone with the Wind in space. George Lucas says he came up with the idea of Vader being the father of Luke while revising the script, but it sounds like it may have been thrown out there prior to that as a possibility from things other said. It really though seemed like he had a lot of ideas, that went all over the place, and just pulled what he needed when he needed it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2016 ---
    That Ovan guy was supposed to be Han's step father and in the end of the film, he was going to go find him.
     
    #13 Boushhdisguise, Jul 28, 2016
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  14. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    I feel like Ovan is an early version of Xizor.
     
    #14 Darth Sidious, Jul 28, 2016
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  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Who's Xizor ?
     
    #15 AstromechRecords, Jul 28, 2016
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  16. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    #16 Darth Sidious, Jul 28, 2016
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  17. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    #17 AstromechRecords, Jul 28, 2016
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  18. JV-24601

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    Made before the Disney acquisition? Check. Not TCW? Check. Into the garbage shoot, SotE.

    Except not. The Falleen were re-canonized by TCW, when Black Sun was featured in the Shadow Collective arc.
     
    #18 JV-24601, Jul 28, 2016
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    But it didn't follow the shadows of the empire arc did it ?
     
    #19 AstromechRecords, Jul 28, 2016
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  20. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    No.
     
    #20 Darth Sidious, Jul 28, 2016
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