When has a Jedi gone to far?

I think it depends on:

-The mindset of the Jedi.
-Does the person really need to be killed.

When Anakin killed Dooku, he did so out of revenge and Dooku didn't need to be killed. In fact, had Anakin taken him in the Jedi could've learned a lot about him and his master.

When Mace wanted to kill Sidious this wasn't out of revenge but duty. Mace knew Sidious owned the courts and was simply too dangerous (macecrealised just how powerful he was during their battle). It is a grey area but I think Mace was right - the galaxy was at risk.

When Rey is fighting Ren, she would've killed him largely out of hate and revenge. And was he a direct threat to the galaxy? Maybe. Not sure.

But the point is a Jedi goes too far if they act out of dark side emotions and if the person can be taken in rather than killed.

 

Hmmm, interesting...

I guess it depends on the moment. No one could blame Rey for killing Ren in the heat of battle, in self defence. But when she has disarmed him and has time to reflect? It's a grey area but if she did kill Ren in anger I think that, for a Jedi, is wrong as it means a likely turn to the dark side. As Yoda says, you will know what is right when you're calm and passive. When calm you can act rationally and that'll be the right way to act. If you act in anger, irrationally, then that will always be wrong.

I guess if Rey killed Ren it would've been good for the galaxy but bad for her...which incidentally would likely have meant bad for the galaxy later on (evil Rey)!

 

There is no question that killing an unarmed prisoner is a violation of the Jedi code.

Anakin breaks the code by killing Dooku, and while Palpatine pressures him to do it, the final choice was Anakin's. This situation exactly parallels when Palpatine pressures Luke to kill Vader, but Luke makes a better choice than his father.

Later in ROTS, Palpatine cleverly causes confusion by tricking Anakin into thinking he is unarmed, effectively forcing everyone involved to make bad choices.

Regarding the fight between Rey and Kylo Ren, so far Rey has not even started Jedi training, so while following the Jedi code would be a good start, I don't believe there is any outcome of this battle that results in Rey becoming a Jedi. She has a lot more work to do first. But this goes back to one of my main complaints about TFA: Rey doesn't get to decide whether to kill Ren, because they are separated. The choice is made for her, leaving no opportunity for character development at all. In my opinion there is very little character development in TFA, even though this has traditionally been one of the key components of Star Wars.

 

I have always found this whole ''killing'' thing to be a little blurry thanks to some of the events we saw in the movies. If Anakin was being seduced by the Dark Side for killing Dooku then what do we make of Luke when he tried to gun Jabba down? If we look at events from the OT, Han was a scoundrel that worked for Jabba and indeed he owned him. Jabba (from a certain point of view) just took Han prisioner just like any other institution would have taken to jail someone who owned them such a large amount of money. The same could be said about Leia who tried to dupe Jabba and came to take away a possesion of his that wasn't hers. If we see things through Jabba's eyes, what right did an unknown female have to come to my house and try to steal from me? Jabba had all the right to take Leia prisioner as she never tried to deal with Jabba in a political manner like Padme did years before with Zero. Even knowing this, Luke was willing to kill Jabba for the only reason that Han and Leia were his friends and nothing more. Not only that but Luke went as far as telling Jabba that if he didn't free them he was going to die. This is revenge we are talking about as I'm pretty sure that Luke didn't have a Force induced vision of Leia choking Jabba.

Same thing could be said when Mace killed Jango. All Mace needed to do was to disarm Jango by chopping his hand of or something like Obi Wan had done with Sam Wessel in the night club but even though he had just seen Jango get trampled by a huge beast and knowing he couldn't fly because his jet pack was messed up, Mace sliced Jango's head off without a care in the world. Anakin murdered the whole Tusken Raider village out of revenge for the brutal mistreatment of his mother and he was evil yet Luke murdered all of Jabba's guards simply because they were doing their duty and just because he wanted to save his friends that in one way or another had gotten themselves in that predicament.

 

Jedi that have gone too far:

Dooku (the lost 20)
Anakin
Quinlan Vos (i think)
Luke
Mace windu

Obi-wan also went far in some of his actions although that could be reasoned as self-defense such as with Maul and Grievous.

I think "going too far" is always going to be from a certain point of view. I think that it is in the same line of thinking as their actions being selfless or selfish.

 

I can't agree with you on this. Things like debtors prisoners, private prisons, and owning people are all unethical and opposed by most (if not all) modern democracies. If Han owes Jabba money, then Jabba has every right to sue Han and get a judgment against him (although this wouldn't be a very good movie), but he has no right to take Han as his property. People are not property at all.

Luke did make an attempt to negotiate with Jabba, and although it is obvious that Luke knows Jabba will refuse, Luke is justified in killing Jabba because he is wrongfully holding Han and others hostage. Killing Jabba and his minions was necessary to free them.

 

When a Jedi go to far?That is a question @playswellwithsharks ....

I think that emotion take a GOOD part of it.Why???
Look what happen to Anakin when he was the choose one and the emotion for loosing Padme change his path in life.I ALWAYS think that a hard emotion can change ANYBODY no matters a code in his life.Does destiny take a part of it???MAYBE but are we in control totally with our life???
A jedi is a person like you and me.A Sith is a person like you and me.NOW...what is the FORCE???For me is like GOD.Sorry...Is my point of view.
I will add this image below.Here is a GREAT example what can a hard emotion can do in a jedi....

 

My good friend, you are looking at things in the way that good hearted honest living people look at things but this is not the case as we are talking about Jabba. Jabba was the godfather of SW during his life. You can not get involved with the mafia and then expect Scarface to go sue you in court if you have a debt with him. These are spineless criminals we are talking about and not the next door neighbor who crashed your car and doesn't want to pay you. We all love Han but he was a slimeball and a lowlife who got involved with the wrong crowd.

When we look at things like this we have to see them from different points of view and see things from the villains point of view and not just the hero. Saying that Luke was justified in killing Jabba because he is wrongfully holding Han and others hostage would be the same as saying that the Empire is justified in killing all the people that opposes them because they are going against the law and like it or not, the Empire was indeed the law and it was chosen by the people.

And you were correct, Luke did try to negotiate with Jabba, after Leia had already done him wrong by trying to infiltrate his group and steal Han away from him in a devious non-political manner. As I said, I love Han, but he was always getting involved with the wrong people by doing shady things. Was he justified by killing the members of Kanjiclub and the Guavian Death Gang after he swindled them? Not at all! But we tend to look the other way when our heros are the ones that bend the rules but had it been Sarco Plank who would have killed Leia, Chewie and Luke after Han had swindled them, he would be a hated dirtbag that deserves to die yet when Han does it we cheer and applaud cause he's the man.

 

The jedi only go to far when tampering with the darkside, a lesson never learned in each generation

 

This reminds me of this:

"

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
   
   
   
2. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
   
   
   
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law."

But in all seriousness, I'm sure that they had very specific rules in their jedi code but, as with any rules, they were always up for interpretation because they're not robots.

 

Yeah I agree. If they use the light side and trust in the force they can't go wrong really. I guess the problems start when the dark side takes over and clouds the force - which is what happens in the prequels of course to the Jedi who were too detached from the living force.

"You will know when you are calm, passive, at peace...".

 

So true my friend!

 

Thanks.

 

Windu obviously. He was taking a full swing to end Palpatine's life.

 

I think that was a rare case of killings being OKAY because it would have been nearly impossible otherwise since Palpatine is the senate .

 

It was the smart thing to do, but it certainly wasn't the light side of the force. Similar to Anakin beheading Dooku.