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Where do you want to see the Jedi: Fallen Order sequel go?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Video/Tabletop Games' started by The Hero With No Fear, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    With how well Jedi: Fallen Order did, and with it kicking off a new franchise according to EA, a sequel is very likely on its way in the next couple years.

    After the first game’s climactic ending, where do you want to see the sequel go? What do you want to see the Mantis crew do next? Or, do you want to see games about other games following other characters in this “Jedi:” series?
     
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  2. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

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    more dathomir, less stupid frog monsters
     
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  3. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    I hope Cere gets a substantial eye-nerf.

    And no, that doesn't mean I hope she gets shot in the eyes with a nerf gun, as funny as that would be.
     
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  4. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

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    she won't be able to see danger as well you'll have to be more stealthy
     
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  5. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Stealth would be a nice addition
     
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  6. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    More characters on the ship. More time to connect with characters on the ship. More playable characters. Maybe a hub-world? Overall, give me Mass Effect 2 & 3, but with Star Wars. (KOTOR is more like ME 1...or rather, ME 1 is more like KOTOR, and KOTOR is sort of covered with SWTOR.)
     
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  7. The dinh

    The dinh Rebel General

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    Stealth and use of blasters occasionally. I wouldn't mind see a different character's stories as well eg: Young Kanan, Grogu or some other new young Jedi.

    I am hoping for Ubisoft to announce something about their new open world Stars Game shortly.
     
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  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    Yeah, I'd also like to see a different lead character's journey, maybe during the High Republic era, Keeve Trennis, lightsaber options for that era would be a amazing.
     
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  9. cheewie

    cheewie Rebel Trooper

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    I would like to play as other jedi as Kanan or Ahsoka, besides Cal. We could see lots of secondary charachters as Cassian Andor, Qi´ra, a pre-mandalorian Dyn Djarin, Hera Syndulla...It could make a time jump to post ROTJ era and tie in with TV shows (And explain why Cal wasn´t present in OT events). I would like to see a full explorable imperial Coruscant ... And, if it does a good service to the script, it would be cool to explore other planets as Jeddha, Onderon, Exegol (fill TROS gaps), Scarif, Ryloth,Eriadu (The carrion spike and all of its monsters, if anyone knows what I mean)) If the story doesn´t gets to episode IV, I think Cal should tragically die at the end of the game, as I expected this was going to happen in the first game.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    What I'd really like to see is a Star Wars game that lets you explore several planets in the galaxy in a way that feels super sandboxy, and even with the original Fallen Order's restrictions it still felt pretty passable for that. But I think a sequel could really expand on these ideas.

    -I'd like to see the platforming and Metroidvania labyrinth elements toned down just a bit. Not totally removed (and definitely could stay for puzzley collectathons) but I don't want to feel constantly feel lost or have the gameworld feel too gamey (looking at you, Zeffo)

    - Add in a few vehicle sections. The ability to fly between orbit and a planet's surface (even if it's broken up by a short cinematic like in Battlefront: Elite Squadron) along with the ability to trigger hyperspeed to go between planets could add a ton to the immersion.

    - Added to that- let's have some bounty hunter/Inquisitor random events. Maybe not as common as Skyrim dragons, but imagine encountering a bounty hunter that you're far from ready to take on. You run back to your ship, she to hers. After a brief dogfight above the surface, you head to orbit, then jump to the next system. But, bad news! She followed you there too! Now, you land, run to your proverbial high ground, and brace for a fight.

    -Story elements-wise: A few years ago, I really wanted to see more cameos in this sequel, but after The Bad Batch I can kinda take or leave those now. I do think I'd like to see that gangster lord guy's story continued. Maybe show Maul's rise. Definitely the ninth sister. But really, I want a story that I cannot predict, so I don't see a point in speculating on that too much right now.

    - I do think that this should be the last Fallen Order game. And I would like to expand my sandboxy bounty hunter idea to the game's endgame content, in which Vader would relentlessy pursue Cal in a Halo Reach sort of final chapter, where the only way to survive is to run and delay the inevitable. But maybe make it at least playable for those that enjoy endgame content- just be aware that staying in one place too long will eventually see Vader's arrival.

    - Less flora/fauna enemies, more stormtroopers and Imperial loyalist humanoids

    - More inquisitors and high level Imperial enemies

    - More outfit customization, less focus on ponchos
     
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  11. The dinh

    The dinh Rebel General

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    Downgrading an all-weather garment? For shame. ;)
     
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  12. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Yes, make the galaxy feel less friendly, harder to navigate.... more Imperial.


    This is fantastic!! I love the idea of random attacks from time to time by Crimson Dawn /Bounty Hunter's Guild et al (with the choice to dogfight/ escape or, landing quickly to negotiate/ standoff/ duel ) when you reach /leave each system. The thought of dogfighting from cloud cover to outer space and back within a lightsaber based game is rather intoxicating. And seismic charges, I want those in my arsenal.


    Just don't make it bland like entry level Swoop racing....
    [​IMG]
    THAT would kill my death stick buzz.
     
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  13. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Good name for a rock band or album
     
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  14. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I just rewatched The Village Bride tonight, and I think F would make a great playable character to add into a JFO sequel. I think gameplay-wise, she could be the "Knight/Dual Weapon/Heavy Weapon" user to Cal's Rogue and Merrin's Mage.

    Cal uses combos like in the original, while F uses one attack that can devastate opponents, but also can leave her open to counters a lot easier. Merrin uses magic that all are weak against, but she also can't reflect enemy fire, making her a liability against snipers and other long-range opponents. (Cere would be playable in a post-game story, and would be a gun-sword combo fighter.)

    Character-wise she'd be a solid pair to Merrin, as both could take up the "Knight In Sour Armor" trope, but while F goes along with it, Merrin is more cynical.
    Cere could try to reach out as a mentor to F, but only ends up getting through to her when she treats the younger woman as a peer.

    The story would be asking the questions about what the Order stood for, and what they as Jedi should stand for now that the Order is gone and they aren't rebuilding it using the holocron.

    Enemies could range from the Empire (obviously) to Dryden Voss and Crimson Dawn to possibly even the Knights of Ren, although I'd prefer it if a Knight of Ren joined our party for a time rather than fought us, if only to get back at the Empire.

    (I also wouldn't mind if the Second Sister came back.)

    Overall, I think a dream party is sort of coming together:

    Cal Kestis (Combo attacks and focus on parrying. Standard Force Use)
    Merrin (Magic abilities and focus on AoE attacks. High Force Use)
    F (Single or double slashes that cleave enemies. Standard Force Use)
    Knight of Ren (Long-range gun use. Similar to Kuruk from the canon KoR. Low Force Use)
    Mandalorian of some sort or a bounty hunter. (Short-range gun use. Low Force Use) Bo-Katan could work, but I'd rather have her in a Kenobi movie trilogy than in this game. If too many characters know about too many Jedi, then it leads to problems.
     
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  15. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    Personally I feel that Cere Junda should've died in the first game, it would've added some much needed consequences to the ending as well as paying tribute to Star Wars tradition by having the mentor die at the end of the first story (Obi-Wan in ANH, Qui-Gon in TPM, Han in TFA). I mean, literally EVERYONE from the Mantis crew survives! It felt a bit too happy-happy for my taste. Besides, Cere wasn't a very compelling character to begin with so her biting the dust would at least give her some significant purpose.

    My wishful thinking is that the writers at Respawn are saving her death for the beginning of the sequel. Honestly, it would be a great way to kick off a new dark chapter in Cal's life by having him lose yet another mentor figure. The sequel could therefore explore Cal's struggle with the dark side, something we didn't really get to see in the first game besides some minor interactions with Taron.

    Other than that, I'd like to see Merrin wield a lightsaber although that's obviously not going to happen. A more intimate romance between Cal and Merrin is another thing that I want to see, but unfortunately that won't happen either.
     
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  16. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I liked Cere for who she was. I definitely see what you mean by the Mentor Occupational Hazard that Star Wars likes, despite me vehemently disagreeing. Cere plays an interesting role in Cal's life. She's his primary mentor despite being his second one chronologically. His first mentor plays the role of Yoda in the first game, bringing out the best in our hero and pointing them in the right direction, despite our hero's constant failures in their eyes. But because of that first mentor's sacrifice, Cere gets to live.
    And honestly, it's about darn time someone does. Star Wars has a few bad habits IMO, and one of them is killing off anyone who uses the Dark Side but goes to the Light. Second Sister could have been a very interesting character after her defeat, but instead she's killed to make room for an unkillable boss aka the Vader cameo. Cere living means that we get to see someone actually struggle with the Dark Side, someone struggle with their failures who doesn't die in one "glorious redemptive moment" (Vader, Kylo, even Luke), but gets to live and must learn to live with the failure. That aspect of her story is very compelling to me.

    In terms of everyone surviving making it a happy ending, I agree and disagree. I like that everyone survives because it means they have room to grow. I prefer the philosophy that a character should only die if their death makes things more interesting and better than their life. I'm also a giant fan of character interactions; killing off characters to make things darker kills off the chances of those interactions, and it doesn't guarantee that the story told after their death will be any better. The ending itself was also an open-ended happy ending IMO, the same way that the ending of TLJ is a happy one. Although in several aspects, the points are inverted:

    In JFO, our heroes all live. In TLJ, the Resistance is reduced to a single ship.
    In JFO, our main villain turns towards the Light. In TLJ, our main villain steps into the Darkness.
    In JFO, our experienced Jedi cut off from the Force survives their encounter with the student they failed. In TLJ, our experienced Jedi cut off from the Force uses that encounter to sacrifice themself and save our heroes.

    There are other things, but at the end of the day, our heroes ultimately fail their quests. Finn, Poe, and Rey all failed in their main objectives. So too did Cal and Cere. But one was because of recklessness and the other by choice. Cal and Cere destroyed the Holocron, the macguffin for the game, in order to save others. But that leaves them directionless. What do they do now? What is their purpose now? That loss of purpose but finding of self is a victory, but it's not a complete one.
     
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  17. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    My long-term theory is that we’ll see Cere eventually fall to the dark side and Cal will have to confront her. It’ll be a nice deviation from the trope of the master having the fallen student and is instead the other way around, kinda like Ahsoka and Darth Vader in Star Wars Rebels.

    I also definitely want to see Cal and Merrin as a couple and I do feel like the first game dropped a lot of hints towards that.
     
  18. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    I agree that it would be interesting to follow a Dark Side user go back to the light, but that's not really what we were discussing. Besides, neither Cere nor Luke actually used the Dark Side, which is not the same thing as failing or struggling.

    How can you say that it ended the same "happy" way as TLJ when the mentor (Luke) dies in TLJ? If you dislike stories that kill off mentor characters without it being interested, taking TLJ as a likable comparison doesn't really make sense. Quite the contrary, if you thought Luke's sacrifice in TLJ was great then it's fair to assume that Cere doing the same thing would be great if the story is done well.

    Exactly, they are directionless. They no longer have any purpose and the story can go in any way whatsoever. I think this was definitely done on purpose for Fallen Order, since the developers didn't know that the game would be a success. For all they know, it could've flopped, which is why they decided to leave the ending open with all good characters surviving. But that still goes back to my first point - killing off the mentor character would create internal struggle for Cal and setup the sequel in a more interesting way. Which is why I hope Respawn has a plan for this to happen at the start of the sequel, since I have faith in them being good storytellers. This is their chance to tell the story they wanted to tell.
     
  19. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    When Cere opens up about what happened with Trilla, she admits she used the Dark Side.

    Cere: Cal it's time I told you everything that happened to me when I escaped the Empire. They brought Trilla in the room, and when I saw her eyes...they showed me what I had caused. She was an Inquisitor, and something in me gave. And I lost all control. ...and I tapped...into the Dark Side...and I killed them all, every last one of them...except for her. And for years I couldn't forgive myself. I was a wreck, because I had all this rage. And I tried pushing it down but there was no hiding from myself. And all I wanted to do was die...but then I learned about the holocron - a spark of hope that there could be a future, that we could move on.


    ****


    Cere: Cal, you will be tested.

    Cal: Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.

    Cere: I don't mean just here. Every Jedi faces the Dark Side...and it's very easy to fail.

    Cal: ...you're still struggling with the Dark Side, even after cutting yourself off from the Force.

    Cere: ...we will always struggle, but that is the test.



    ****


    Vader: Yes. Strong with the Dark Side.

    Cal: Cere...

    Vader: I can feel it inside of you.

    Cal: Cere! Cere! Hey, listen to me! You still have a choice!



    Because it's about the failure of the mission at the gain of oneself. Rey failed to recruit Luke and turn Ben to the light. Luke failed to both convince Rey to let the Jedi die and then later on failed to join her in-person to help out his sister. But in failing to accomplish these things, the two ultimately found (or in Rey's case, were on the path of finding) themselves again. Rey didn't need a place in the story built for her - she was going to build it (and by proxy rebuild the Jedi Order) herself. Luke died, yes, but it wasn't the mentor death of "I have so much more to teach you, but I can't. Peace!" It was, as Rey put it "but it wasn't sadness or pain. It was...peace, and purpose." Luke failed his mission but discovered himself.

    Jedi: Fallen Order is the same. Cere rested all of her hope on that Holocron. Cal had built his future on that Holocron. But he also crushed the Holocron - their goal of raising a new Jedi Order with that device was gone. Their mission, a failure. Their future, lost. But that was their choice, so there was a sense of peace and purpose in the failure. Cal knew himself well enough that he wasn't going to risk a flawed sense of identity on this mission. And in doing so, he failed, but gained something more important. THAT is how they are the same.


    It could be, but it needs more than just a well-done story to be great. Two similar things but one lacks inconsistent internal structures will ultimately lead to failure. For example, the OT and ST reveal that our main Jedi is actually related to a Sith. One of those reveals became one of the biggest plot twists in cinema history while the other is seen as laughable at best and controversial at worst for some. Ultimately, Rey being a Palpatine is not a bad story, but it lacked the internal structures to make it work. Rey didn't hate Palpatine specifically, nor did she idolize him. He was a historical figure, yes, but he hadn't defined her history in any way, shape, or form that mattered beforehand. (Which is why the movie had to dedicate so much time in order to build those structures, and in doing so, the entire movie was weakened.) Meanwhile, Vader was Luke's #1 enemy. He killed Obi-Wan, he had killed his father, and he was a failed Jedi. Luke was going to prove that he wasn't like Vader to Yoda and Obi-Wan. Luke was going to kill Vader in revenge for his father and for the Rebellion. Luke was going to prove he was better than Vader. Luke had built his whole identity regarding himself and the Jedi around his father Anakin, and to know that Anakin had become Vader tore his world down to its very foundations.

    A different example may be comparing Luke in TLJ and Tony Stark in Avengers: Endgame. (Tony for the Square Enix Avengers game also fits the below comparisons.) Both had failed at the missions they had invested years in. Both retired out in isolation and found a sort of peace in that until someone from their past asks for their help. Both refuse, but both ultimately end up coming around, reconciling with those they consider family, and giving their lives for the mission. Yet somehow people despise Luke's TLJ story and adore Tony's. Both are in good stories, both are true to the characters, and both follow the same general beats. But just because they follow the same beats doesn't mean things are the same or will be received the same.

    But how does that relate to Luke and Cere? Cere dying just for the sake of dying as you desire isn't a really good reason to kill her. That's being dark for the sake of being dark.* Luke's death had peace and a purpose. It wasn't to kick off a darker story as you desire, nor was it to fully honor the assumption that Luke is the "Obi-Wan" of the trilogy.** No, Luke's death had a purpose. Like Obi-Wan, it was a sacrifice play. Unlike Obi-Wan, Luke's death went on and inspired a whole generation - Luke had become the legend he believed himself to be and then hated himself for believing. For Cere to have anywhere near the same impact, you're going to need to do a lot of legwork to even justify why she should die to me in the first place, and then even more explaining how and how that relates to the overall story. And just saying "a darker and edgier tone" won't cut it.

    I dislike stories that do so because they feel as if there's some sort of unspoken obligation to do so. There are a multitude of ways to separate the budding young hero from their mentor without killing off the mentor. Now sometimes it's necessary, and the stories after the mentor's death can be great ones, but the best examples do so for reasons outside of just "mentor needs to die for story to live."

    A few things here.

    First, how do you know that JFO wasn't the story they wanted to tell? If it's said in an interview, I'd really like the link to that if you don't mind.

    Second, Cal had an internal struggle already, and the game already set up one - if the Jedi can't be reforged without the threat of falling to the Dark Side, what should the current Jedi be doing? That's far more interesting and relatable to the world than the simple "you're struggling with the Dark Side" storyline. Not that the latter can't be interesting, but if one makes a threat like the struggle of temptation, one better be willing to follow through on it. So, if you get your way and Cal struggles and potentially falls, then Game 3 better show us some major consequences for this.

    Third, killing off characters at the beginning of a story is a huge risk. They did this with the character Newt in one of the Alien movies, and I can't remember hearing anything good about that one. (I'm sure the movie had problems outside of this one thing, but it can leave a bitter taste in one's mouth.)

    I'm generally not a fan of the "back for the dead" trope, and I can only think of two examples where it actually paid off, those two being Mass Effect 2, in which the player character themself is killed and then resurrected, and Avengers: Infinity War, which made since because the character who died had no more interesting interactions and had completed their arc. And then they were brought back in a Disney+ show a few years later, or rather a version of them was. So, one could say that in both cases, no one really died.




    Also as an aside, I just found out that Liam McIntyre was Taron Malicos. HOW AM I JUST NOW FINDING OUT THAT LIAM MACINTYRE WAS TARON MALICOS?!?!



    *I don't say this as a mean thing, as I sometimes struggle with this.
     
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