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Which Character Should Young Boys Aspire to in Force Awakens

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by AllHailVader, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Like I said, it depends on environment, if it's full of a##holes, I would certainly worry. But generally, whatever made my child happy would made me happy.
     
    #21 LadyMusashi, Nov 13, 2015
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  2. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    If my nephew wanted to dress as female character then why not? Go out an 'listen to the whisper, times are changing fast' ;) Look at all the bro-ponies out there no problem. Its people who can't tolerate change where the problem lies. In the UK its all super hero stuff at the moment due to CiN kids across the country are in super hero costumes at the moment.
     
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  3. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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  4. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Both of my sons are free to identify with whichever character they find most relatable. Why restrict them? Those restrictions for fear of repercussions is exactly why there are restrictive environments where people feel a need to hide their true interests in the first place. And more often than not, the parents who fearfully restrict what their child can be interested in due to the perceived social norms and biases is due more to the parent's issues than any issues with other children.

    My 5 year old loves Star Wars, Ninjas, trains and anything that explodes or crashes. He also loves his ponies and Frozen, dancing, and a wide variety of Studio Ghibli movies which are usually female-centric. I don't see why it should cause any issues. At least where I am located, the world isn't so repressed as to look down on that anymore, and I say we're all the better for it. The more feminine-centric properties my son associates with have given a more balanced personality with equal ability to rough house or play pretend with dolls. he has both female and male friends over for play dates. So,. I think its working out ok for him so far.
     
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  5. It's a Trap

    It's a Trap Rebel Official

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    CaptaIn Phasma. She has the coolest costume and it doesn't matter who's under it.
     
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  6. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    I'm.....speechless.....




    But the world is what it is. And the fact is if any of your sons showed up to an all boys school with a doll or female toy, he would get teased and bullied, because where all boys are concerned YOU HAVE to be macho, YOU HAVE to fight, and it's about being physical and tough.

    So I just wonder....do we want a world where women are now men, and men should be encouraged to be like women?

    This is not about restricting but just being what we are biologically.

    MOST men are into action like your son is and MOST women are into romance, emotions and shopping. These are just facts, and the beauty of the whole men are from mars women are from venus psychology. And it's why relationships are fun because if we were all the same, liking all the same things, life would be pretty boring and predictable.
     
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  7. ig89

    ig89 Rebelscum

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    This commercial is just wrong on so many levels.

    I would promote my kid to romp around and be a little boy. If he really wants to play with barbies, sure I'd let him. But I think many of you are mistaken to think that society wants boys to like actions figures and wants girls to like barbies. I think that's the natural flow of life. If a girl likes actions figures or a boy likes barbies, then that's an anomaly, which is also a natural part of life but still an anomaly. The only reason today's society wants us to believe that these kinds of anomalies are actually normalities is money. I think the company that sells barbies would be really glad to create a whole new male target group right? Same with how new female target groups are now achieved for action movies, making the movies worse in the proces.
     
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  8. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    Thank you bro. I feel like I am on an island when I make these views and I'm some sort of caveman.

    This is science and fact.

    99% of guys in school from when i was 7 to 13 were into transformers, ninja turtles, actions films, cars, football, basketball, and women. There were a few who weren't into these, and they were anomalies.

    How can you promote young children to be into barbies and girl's things? They should act naturally without any kind of marketing to influence them as young kids are very impressionable. And the way of the world is boys are into certain things, and girls are into certain things.

    If my son only played with barbies and did not like transformers toys or he-man toys, i would find it strange, but would respect he has made that decision without any outside influence. But it would still be strange and out of the norm
     
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  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Well identifying with a character is not the same thing as cross dressing.

    As for the showing up at an all boys school perhaps the boy with a girls doll ends up the toughest one. I am pretty traditional in my views but if my son thinks Rey is cool that is really not a big deal. I mean Rey runs around while things blow up, shoots a gun, fights with a staff, flies the Falcon (if its not Poe), does parkour like a beast and she is in Star Wars. If your worried that a female character in Star Wars means that she has to be all doe eyed and into romance. I think you will be disappointed.
     
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  10. LRSVDR

    LRSVDR Rebel Commander

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    MOST people are women.
     
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  11. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    But I am talking on basic level.

    I'm not sure how many boys would run to get the toy of the lead girl in Hunger Games, or would have gotten a Ripley toy. Because of the basic sentiment of "that's a girl, it's for girls."

    When you grow older, then you have a broader view, but in an all boys school where it's all about how tough you are, and getting into fights, you identify with everything being male.

    So I would think Finn, Poe, and Kylo would draw their attention the most, as being boys, they can identify with that.

    Maybe I'm too fundamental; but if I saw a boy dress up as Rey or Leia, I would find that odd.

    I also think it's not really helpful to intervene in the thinking of boys. If some boys like Rey and want to dress up as her, that's. fine. Or if they find the lead in Hunger Games as their hero, it's cool too.

    But we have to be realistic. MOST boys will gravitate towards the male characters and MOST girls would gravitate towards the female characters, because of the very amicable gender war that will always rage for all time.



    So if Most People are Women....I don't understand the point you are making. It still doesn't negate the fact of what MOST boys are into and what MOST girls are into.
     
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  12. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    You are probably right. That people are drawn to characters that are like them. However looking at Rey and what she does just in the trailer is more aggressive than we saw Leia. Particularly when Leia was at her most aggressive they depicted her also as a harem girl. Also Leia's look was very much her own. Rey's look has a striking similarity to Luke and Anakin. She still has a femininity to her but the clothing itself is not at all girly.
     
  13. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    The world is what you make it. The social expectations have been ingrained based on gender bias. I love action movies and romances. My sons love boys and girls toys. These are your new realities. No more restrictions based on herd mentality and fear. The expectation that boys be tough and fight and need to project constant masculinity is propagated by the previous generations biases, not by any intrinsic need to act as specific way. We change that by not projecting our bias onto our children. That is how the world changes.
     
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  14. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    That is true, but then she is very similar to I think it is Katniss? In Hunger Games.

    But my point is not whether a girl/woman is doing action or not, is that MOST young boys cannot connect with a girl.

    I don't know how it is now, but being in an all boy's school, you are not into anything girl's are into, because you will get bullied or teased. But moreover, naturally, you just wouldn't. And even if Rey may be more action than Leia (who was great by the way, deserves more praise) it's still a girl doing these things, and boys will see that.

    I would assume most boys would be obsessed with Kylo Ren because that whole look and imagery are what boys will go for. Cool, dark, and menacing with some mystery, and the mask.

    And if they actually got the Finn toy with his lightsaber, boys would rush off to buy that as well.

    The point I'm making is; boys should not be encouraged to buy a Rey toy if they are not naturally inclined. That commercial should not now be encouraging boys to feel it's okay to play with a doll.
     
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  15. Darth Lindb

    Darth Lindb Rebel General

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    In our day in age it could be Finn for the girls, and Rey for the boys! or everybody can aspire to be bb-8 having no gender identity! Hooray! Let's toss away biology, as they are like stupid midicholorians!
     
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  16. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    But there isn't anything being projected.

    That commercial above, is projecting something to kids, which is wrong.

    My argument is that even if you took away commercials or anything marketing ideas to the genders, MOST boys will buy that tranfromers, he-man, ben 10 toy and very few if any would buy the barbie doll.

    I have mostly nieces, and I know that they would want nothing to do with any action toys of that sort, but prefer dolls, or toys of their favorite boy band.

    This isn't anything to do with fear, this is science and biology. Enforcing a change is now going against what is natural.

    And I think the beauty of Finn and Rey is no longer is something like this having only the male doing all the fighting, but the girls now have a toy they can buy and identify with in Rey, and the boys can hopefully find something to identify with in Finn. If some boys like the Rey character, that's fine. But from my point of view, I think it would be an anomaly for a girl to prefer Finn over Rey and vice-versa.
     
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  17. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    My wife loves action movies and romances too. You are right times are changing. Though I think @AllHailVader has a point biology also has a role to play in this and in the interest of mutual tolerance of views lets suggest that there are motives to some ways of thinking even older ones that are not purely motivated by "herd mentality and fear."
     
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  18. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I disagree. Although male and female perspectives may bring different angles of appreciation to a similar topic. I don't think it means thy can't appreciate the same things. I'd say you are correct. Without commercials nothing would change, because parents are the main culprit. They project their social expectations on their children from birth by choosing certain toys or colors based on perceived gender roles. In earlier society where gender roles were specifically aligned to certain aspects or functions of society these things made sense, but they are outdated and mostly useless at this point and only used to perpetuate norms that make people comfortable for fear of change or differences causing them or their children to be ostracized or ridiculed.

    The lack of male perspective in female centric activities and female perspective in male centric activities creates a bubble that limits exposure to other views and creates rigidity in beliefs and practices and is far more damaging that any girl wanting to be Finn or boy wanting to be Rey. On the contrary, adding that perspective and allowing our sons to be more in tune with the feminine and our daughters to be more in tune with the masculine we'd likely find it much easier to bridge gender divides that so often create conflict in both personal relationships and in communities such as this. But wholesale changes to that gender role status quo is perceived as radical by people who already have these roles ingrained in their head. The thing is, kids don't know that stuff yet unless we are teaching them.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 19, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 19, 2015 ---
    Yes, I absolutely believe there is a biological component. But I don't think its restrictive. I just think it provides different perspectives.

    My wife loves action movies too. But she helps me find a feminine perspective to appreciate them from when we discuss them. It gives me and her a greater appreciation of the same product. Just as I can provide a masculine interpretation of a romantic comedy that I appreciate that helps her see it from a new angle.
     
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  19. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    Let's take a film like Commando.

    Is there really a female perspective to that film?

    It's an INCREDIBLY simple tale about a soldier with huge muscles who mows down an entire army to save his daughter.

    Of course we can recognize the universal theme of what a father would do to save their daughter.

    But it's pretty much just an extremely violent film starring a man with muscles. And at the very core, that is LOVED by many guys whilst most women just don't get why guys like us love that film.

    Clueless.

    I actually think there are some funny aspects to Clueless, but essentially, my sister really gets it in ways I will never understand. My nieces get High School Musical in ways I will never understand.

    And that is the beauty of the world and cinema. There are things that both men and women can enjoy, like an Indiana Jones or even Sleepless in Seattle, or Jurassic Park, which are very universal films that aren't gender-specific.

    But there are those that are very much geared to a gender.
     
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  20. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Well I agree with you on Commando. But that exemplifies what I'm trying to say. That is a movie made purely from a masculine perspective. A product of a time where the division of gender roles created a space for a film like that.

    But then look at something like John Wick or Snowpiercer recently. These are more modernized visions of violent action movies. Both films that have been more popular with women. They have just as much action as commando, but allow for a more balanced perspective. A product of more modern culture that isn't so divided. Not saying these movies are perfectly balanced, but it is more likely for a woman to find something to appreciate in Keanu Reeve's melancholy dog loving killer, than the robotic, one note killing machine in Commando. But there is still enough masculine perspective there for men to enjoy, perhaps even more than Commando where the tone is so one sided.

    Point being. I don't think boys like cars, and girls like dollies flies any more. Its reductive and I think as a society we've discovered there's more nuance to it than that. That there are aspects and perspectives that appeal to each gender, but that there doesn't need to be a divide in what appeals to men or women. A girl may be into cars, but she may have different reasons for liking them, just as a boy may play with dolls, but do it in a manner slightly differing from a girl.

    Now this is not to say you can't still make a Commando today. You can make a movie that only appeals to men or women. But I think quality suffers if you do that, as a balanced perspective makes for a deeper film. Star Wars, is not one sided. It is gender neutral. Their heroes don't need to be Commando or Sex in the City. A man can have both masculine and feminine aspects and vice versa. And even if they don't, that doesn't mean that my son can't relate more to Rey's story, even if he comes from a different perspective by way of gender than her.

    If my son takes to the story of a scavenger alone in the desert finding their way in the world more than a defecting storm trooper, why should gender play any role in who he chooses to relate too. In the end it is her story and personality, her character arc, that defines whether he relates to her or not. Her gender at that point is mostly meaningless unless you make it meaningful by making it taboo to relate to a female character.
     
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