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Who does the movie title refer to?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Darth Walt, Apr 12, 2019.

?

The movie title refers to...?

  1. Luke Skywalker

    24 vote(s)
    15.6%
  2. Leia Skywalker

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  3. Anakin Skywalker

    25 vote(s)
    16.2%
  4. Shmi Skywalker

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  5. Rey Skywalker

    47 vote(s)
    30.5%
  6. Ben Skywalker

    38 vote(s)
    24.7%
  7. Another Skywalker

    17 vote(s)
    11.0%
  1. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    Right, and I'm certainly no English major, but if they were to word it in the second way they would have to indicate singular or plural and it would be...

    The Skywalkers' Rise or The Skywalker's Rise.

    Also, as FN pointed out, both mean the same thing, but in my opinion, the second would be somewhat awkward, as native english speakers, especially those of us without a degree in English would never speak this way naturally. It would be somewhat akin to the way Yoda speaks. It's just not natural to us. Again, I clearly don't have a degree in English, as if I did, I'm pretty sure I would not have used so many commas.
     
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  2. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    As @FN-3263827 indicated, "The Rise of Skywalker" is more poetic and ambiguous, but it could mean "(The) Skywalker's Rise" (the definite article is a bit weird, but not technically wrong). "The Rise of Skywalker" could also mean several other things (again, because the title is deliberately ambiguous).

    The first/actual version ("The Rise of Skywalker") also has an emphasis on "Skywalker" while the second ("Skywalker's Rise") has an emphasis on "Rise". So yes, there is strong potential, subtle meaning in the poetic title; but yes again, both forms are equally valid.

    English is pretty unique in its inclusive grammar and huge vocabulary (a good chunk of which are French and Norse loan words, btw), and this gives it a richness that can be hard to penetrate for us filthy foreigners ;) There is a lot of possible nuance and subtlety embedded in the English language, especially since it does not follow as strict a grammar as some continental languages, like German & Latin; (I did study French back in the 90s but have forgotten everything and can no longer remember how regular French grammar is...). I have heard it argued that Shakespeare could not have happened in any other language but (Early Modern) English, for these very reasons.

    Or to put it another way:

    the-english-language_o_1817651.jpg
    ;)
     
    #222 Angelman, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  3. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I'm an English major, although English is not my first language, which makes my analysis of the language not as intuitive or perhaps as valid as that of native speakers. But what I have a fairly good knowledge of is linguistics and how languages work and I do agree with @Choose Light about the saxon genitive and its use. The "the" in "The Skywalker Rise" would go with "Skywalker", not with "Rise" (as it does in The Rise of Skywalker). In English grammar the saxon genitive (Skywalker's) is used like the possessive adjective in English and the romance languages ("his rise", "su ascenso", "son ascension") and substitutes the definitive article "the" that goes with the noun (in this case "rise"). "The" turns the proper noun "Skywalker" into a common noun (The Skywalker), which would make the meaning of "The Skywalker's Rise" different from "The Rise of Skywalker".

    But English does have a grammar as strict as that of romance languages! It works differently though. Instead of being ruled by morphological endings English has a very fixed word order that is very hard to bypass... The use of English prepositions and modal auxiliary verbs is also rather systematic... It is true that its extensive and very specific vocabulary (due to a lot of borrowing from other languages) makes its sentences very short and at first glance, uncomplicated... But I'm not fooled by it ;)
     
    #223 Kylocity, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  4. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Well... you put me squarely to shame there, mam... :oops: Also, you broke my head a little... Thanks for putting me in my place and making me feel stupid! :D I bow to your superior linguistics.

    Oh, that is a good point! English syntax is pretty much divinely determined and breaking it would herald the end of days! :)
     
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  5. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Nothing stupid about analysing language and theorising about grammar... :) There is nothing better... well maybe Star Wars is :D
    Linguistics for me is a bit like music, I may know a tune very well in my head but that doesn’t mean I can sing it... I know how English grammar works, but unfortunately that doesn’t always help me speak or write better :oops:
     
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  6. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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  7. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    If that is all legit, my mind is blown....if it's not, I would never know!
     
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  8. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Sorry, I made it too complicated.

    The car of the man.
    The man's car ( The "the" goes with "man", not with "car")
    his car.

    The car of Peter.
    Peter's car. (we don't say "the Peter's car"
    his car.

    *the words in italics are all possessives.
     
    #228 Kylocity, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  9. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    We might if we were using peter as an adjective, and not a noun. ;)

    He's a real peter.
    That is the peter's car.
     
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  10. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    If you do that you turn the proper noun “Peter” into a common noun “a peter”.
    The peter’s car would therefore mean that the possessor of the car is “a peter” (one man by the name of Peter) we know or have mentioned before, so we refer to him as “the peter”

    Every time you put a noun, proper or common, in a possessor’s position you turn it into an “adjective”, so to speak.
     
    #230 Kylocity, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  11. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The Force Awakens: Who does it awaken in?
    The Last Jedi: Who’s left last after Luke?
    The Rise of Skywalker: “I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker, I assumed . . . wrongly.

    **OR**

    It’s about a horrifying Zombie Shmi, rising from her desert grave, exacting revenge on every Tusken Raider she finds. We can call her ‘Lady Sandheart’. You know, for kids.
     
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  12. Stefynoseu

    Stefynoseu Rebel General

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    I don't think it refers to any specific Skywalker. Anikan was believed to be born of the force to restore the balance; perhaps that was always true, just complicated. I think there will be a rise of terrible darkness, violence, and poverty in this movie and Kylo will have to make a choice. His bond with Rey will encourage him. There will be some great moment where she saves him and gives him a climatic speech, handing him Anikan's lightsaber.... "Rise to the Legend of Skywalker-bring balance to the force-THAT is your true destiny."

    I think there will be a scene where he ignites the Skywalker lightsaber and accepts who he is. * Badass points if Yoda, Luke, etc are watching with pride as force ghosts.* The rebels will stand behind him, Rey at his side. It won't be so much that he "turns" good as he fulfills what Anikan was supposed to do in the first place. ("Grandfather, I will finish what you started." )

    I believe he will sacrifice himself for both sides somehow (the bad guys can't stop the impending doom of their monster death star creation (some kind of killing machine anyhow) and neither can the good guys, which means everyone is dead unless they all work together.

    There will be a very emotional reaction from the characters and the audience, realizing the whole Skywalker story has come full circle and is officially over. I know that would make ME cry.

    I believe that is what the scene in the trailer is-the final death star (or weapon of mass destruction type thingy) destroyed by Kylo's sacrificing himself as the very last Skywalker. This ultimate sacrifice will restore the balance in the force and stop the fighting and violence.

    I believe following his sacrifice there will be peace and people will speak of the legend and tell the story.

    The last Skywalker will rise to meet his true destiny. End of the Skywalker Saga.

    Just a fun guess. If I'm right, I have no doubt Disney will take this post down. hahahaha
     
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  13. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    If it's this one, the Skywalker that rose, would definitely be Rey who could be a Skywalker, then the only thing they have to retcon of RJ's is that Snoke was wrong about WRONGLY, and Kylo is a liar, which many people assume anyway.

    **OR**

    If so, I'm out. 30 years of being a SW fan wasted and I have to try to get into Star Trek. The only thing I've ever liked about Star Trek is Deanna Troi's jumpsuit and tribbles.
     
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  14. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Or maybe Skywalker refer to Rey and Kylo together, both forces fighting united against Palpatine and finally defeating him.
     
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  15. Smullie_1138

    Smullie_1138 Rebel Commander

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    So I just watched The Last Jedi for the lost countieth time, and - with the teaser - in mind, I had some observations.

    First, some (or all) might have already been said by others. If so, forgive me for not reading the entire thread.
    Also, this is gonna be quite the text. So sorry for that, too (chewbacca)

    Alrighty then:

    When the title for Episode 8 was revealed, it was soon realised that the title - The Last Jedi - was mentioned in The Force Awakens:

    Snoke (in TFA): "The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise!"

    In The Last Jedi we learned, that the title was referincing Luke (see above) and later Rey:

    Luke (in TLJ): "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi."

    So now we know the title for Episode 9 - The Rise of Skywalker, we again were remembered by a quote from the previous film, again spoken by Snoke:

    Snoke (in TLJ): "Come closer, child. So much strength. Darkness rises, and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker... I assumed. Wrongly. Closer, I said."

    Now, of course we haven't seen the film yet (still sooo long to go 'till December...), so we're gonna have to wait how it turns it exactly. However, going by the above examples, it's very much possible that again the title will refer to both Rey and Luke.
    Personally, I don't think Rey is related to a Skywalker, so I'm guessing she's gonna take the name Skywalker for herself, to keep the legend of Luke (and the Jedi) going. Maybe even going as far as replacing the word Jedi with the word Skywalker.

    However, if the above logic is applied, then the title would refer to Luke as well.
    *side note: yes, Ben could come back to the light. But then he would be Ben Solo again, not Ben Skywalker. Unless the galactic municipal system works different. I jest of course.

    So how could the title refer to Luke? I'll come back to this later, first I'm going to take a detour. Sorry in advance.


    We know Palpatine is coming back. We also know this was the plan all along (apparently). So during my most recent viewing of The Last Jedi (very recent, as in about 15 minutes ago), some images stuck by me, which reminded me of the Dark Empire comics.
    This series dealt with Palpatine returning through cloning himself endlessly, at one point looking like this:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Why this stuck with me, is because after Snoke's decimation, there's the scene with Hux standing next to his body (contemplating to kill Kylo Ren then and there):

    [​IMG]

    Now compare Hux' look, with the above pictures. Especially the action figure one. Similar outfit. Similar hairdo even.

    I'm not saying Hux is Palpatine incarnated, or that Palpatine already has a new host. Far from it actually. But maybe, and it's a big maybe, this is a hint or easter egg that - even in during the filming of TLJ - they were working Palpatine (and some EU ideas) back into the new films.

    This got me thinking. They knew Palpatine was coming back. We see Hux standing next to Snoke's collection of body parts, in attire alluding to Dark Empire's version of Palpatine.
    So what if Snoke was possessed by Palpatine all along? Or, what if Snoke was a version of Palpatine reïncarnated (clone or otherwise)?
    This would explain Snoke's look. Back in the day, there were theories/ rumours of Snoke slowly regenerating himself. If true, and Palpatine and Snoke are the same (mentally and/ or physically), this would also explain Snoke's mistake in judging Kylo Ren, which got himself killed.

    Remember, Palpatine in RotJ bragged about everything happening as he has foreseen, even though he got thrown into that shaft at the end because he misjudged Vader (which is one explanation). So if Snoke and Palpatine are connected, with Snoke's loading screen not having reached 100%, it's quite possible he was stuck at the same level as he was in RotJ, thus making the same mistakes again.

    Disclaimer: I know many more have speculated there's a connection between Snoke and Palpatine, so I'm not claiming this is as my own theory per se. Just trying to tie it into what came before, i.e. The Last Jedi.


    Ok, back to how Luke is being referenced in the title of Episode 9, The Rise of Skywalker:

    1. Well duh, his name is Luke Skywalker.
    2. More serious than number 1, if they knew Palpatine was coming back for a number of years now, and they're also using ideas from the old Expanded Universe (which has been done a lot these last couple of years), then they could also use this idea:

    "28. Another idea abandoned early on was having Obi-Wan Kenobi return from the dead. It did, however, make it into an early draft of the script."

    It might be as simple as that. I do think however that this is a tricky one, because if one character can come back, what's stopping a whole cargo ship of other characters from doing the same?


    Almost done now. Thanks for taking the time to read this (or if you didn't, that's ok too). Debunk away!

    One last thing about those Dark Empire similarities in The Last Jedi:

    [​IMG]

    Seems familiar?

    [​IMG]


    In closing (and off topic, but just a bit):

    It's been 42 years to the day (depending on where you live) since Star Wars first was released. And here we are, still obsessing over it, even comparing a side character hairdo to some old comics (you know what I'm talking about if you read the above novel :p).
    Whether you like all of Star Wars, or parts of it, we're still going strong. On to the next 42! (just don't forget where you're towel is)
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The inciting incident for this trilogy was based on Snoke’s fear that Luke would return, enable new Jedi to ‘rise’, and inspire hope in the galaxy. Could be that’s ‘The Rise of Skywalker’ being referred to. If Rey is the one to actually facilitate this, then the title would be talking about her fulfilling Luke Skywalker’s legacy (finishing what he started) . . . . . . . . or not :D
     
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  17. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Kylo Ren/Ben Solo dies (gets killed by Rey or kills himself), then the Force ghost of Luke Skywalker appears and reanimates his nephew by giving up his own existence. Luke vanishes forever, but Ben lives on.
    => The Rise Of Skywalker

    #Speculation
     
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  18. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Says who? Every Star Wars movie changed the Force and gave us new abilities.

    TESB: objects moving with your mind
    ROTJ: Force Lightning
    TPM: Force Run
    AOTC: Force Block
    ROTS: the Force can create life
    TFA: Force freeze, Force visions
    TLJ: Force projection, Force ghosts can create lightning, force bridge
    TROS: Force fights

    And this is just a smaller list. So, why not "Force Reanimation" too? : P
     
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  20. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Well, he's already one with Force. I don't think he would need to "die".
     
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