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SPECULATION Who here thinks that Episode 9 can tie the Saga Together?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Jedi77-83, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    One of JJ's quotes about Episode 9 is that it will tie the 9 Part Skywalker Saga together. After seeing TFA and TLJ, I realized there was never going to be a way to tie the ST with the PT/OT simply because Lucas 1-6 story arc really had a beginning and ending. The 1-6 story had 2 arcs: The macro arc was the rise of Palpatine and then eventually his downfall (no pun intended) along with the defeat of the Empire. The micro story was the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Now we can all debate the quality of the PT movies, but the narrative/story is there and it is clear what the 1-6 arc is.

    The ST was always going to be an epilogue (from a certain point of view) to the 1-6 story because it had to restart everything (Resistance vs First Order, a New Chosen One, a new Villain, etc). So I just don't see how JJ is going to tie the 1-9 story together as one big arc in a macro and micro sense, simply because the way Lucas wrote the 1-6 story arc.

    I would love to hear from anyone who sees all of this differently.....
     
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  2. Cunir

    Cunir Rebel Trooper

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    this is why i'm betting my house (not literally!) on Rey being the granddaughter of Obi Wan Kenobi, because that's what will tie the entire saga together — it's the story of Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin from start to finish.

    The PT was all about Obi Wan and Anakin... then it moved onto Obi Wan and Darth Vadar killing him... and now the ST is all about Obi Wan's granddaughter killing Vadar's grandson.

    Star Wars IX is finally going to avenge the original death that kicked it all off in 1977.

    Or maybe Rey will bring Kylo back from the brink, and do what Obi Wan couldn't do with Anakin? But either way... it's all going to be tied up with that original Obi Wan/Anakin relationship.
     
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  3. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I guess it depends on how one interprets what it takes to tie the trilogies together. I think that if Kylo’s arc is focused back on his obsession with Vader and his redemption or lack there of is centered around his understanding or not understanding of who Anakin really was then the trilogies would be tied together.

    Also if we all agree that 1-6 are tied together then just tying the ST to the OT would then link all 3. This could be done by having Rey by the end of the movie taking on the task of rebuilding the Jedi. This would tie in with the OT if Force ghost Luke is the one to make her realize she needs to do it.

    The question of can IX tie the trilogies together is yes. As long as one does not expect a whole bunch of intricacies in doing so. The big question is will IX tie them all together
     
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  4. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I would submit that the ST flows out of the previous trilogies rather organically. I don't see how it isn't tied to the previous films.

    Kylo is a descendent of Anakin. He is a Skywalker. He is tied to the previous films by simple heredity. Many characters are still living and their adventures are continuing in these films. The happy endings of the OT were upended by Kylo Ren's betrayal. His fall to the darkside destroyed the new jedi, broke apart the pirate and the princess.

    Second thematically Kylo and Rey are oppositional parallels to Anakin.
    Kylo the spoiled prince wants to follow Vader's path of control and power.
    Rey a beyond impoverished girl sees herself as no one and is pulled toward a brighter destiny.

    The idea that they are not apart of the larger story is more a statement that the ST has not hit the notes that some fans wanted.
     
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  5. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think there is a difference between continuing the story (which you are talking about) and tying everything together (which JJ is saying).

    I don’t think anyone is debating the story isn’t continuing as you have the OT characters and another Skywalker in the ST. The point is do they all tie together as one large arc that Lucas established writing 1-6 (Anakin’s redemption/Palpatine’s rise to power). My point is that I don’t think it was ever possible and the ST will probably work best as an epilogue or continuation.

    The only way to tie the 9 movies is to have some huge twist that makes you look at 1-6 differently (something Lucas did in ESB with the Vader revelation). I don’t know what they could do (other then what someone mentioned about Rey being Obiwan’s granddaughter) which would give a new context to the 3 Trilogies.
     
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  6. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Attuned

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    I try not to be a pessimist about these things. That said, I have a sneaking suspicion that IX won't really tie anything together. I think it will wrap up the Resistance/First Order conflict with little or no reference to the previous trilogies. Sure there's the supposed JJ quote, but the sequels so far have really shown no interest in tying the saga together.

    At least, I would rather expect this and be pleasantly surprised than go in expecting a great Saga conclusion and be disappointed.
     
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  7. PoolShark

    PoolShark Rebel Commander

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    There is no way in H3LL that EP9 will tie the saga together. At least not from a story/script point of view. There will probably be a couple aliens, artifacts, or ships from the PT and OT that only Star Wars nerds will notice. This will be JJ's and LF's way of saying "hey look, we tied it all up". The ST is garbage.
     
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  8. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Let me elaborate.

    The oppositional parallel of both Rey and Kylo point to the dual nature of Anakin. The great hero and great villain. Which will his legacy be? That is why I would say they are very much tied. Even with Anakin dead his shadow is cast over both the BBEG and the new hero. Will Vader's legacy or the redeemed Anakin's be what continues in the galaxy.

    Further I would also note that both the PT and OT had a Fall and Redemption arc. In many cyclical philosophies that next and missing step is a rebirth. Anakin the Destroyer, Luke the Redeemer & Rey the Rebirth.

    Again the ST flows right out of the DNA of the PT and OT they are tied together.
     
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  9. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    I suppose Kylo could balance the Force to finish what Anakin started. IX would need to define balance and have Kylo achieve it.

    I do not think Vader nor Luke brought balance so...
     
    #9 Xeven, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  10. Pastor Barndog

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    Rey can also stop Kylo and bring balance back.

    As for if Anakin/Luke brought balance Lucas said they did. Stopping the imbalance that the Darkside caused was achieved.
     
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  11. LeeGonJin

    LeeGonJin Rebel Trooper

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    Honestly?

    I just can’t see how they are going to tie these trilogies together in any meaningful way. Not after the last Jedi.

    For me they would HAVE to incoude Anakin, Padme, obi Wan and Palpatine in whatever shape or form necessary. That is the only way it will ever tie the trilogies together.


    For me..

    -Anakin has to be a key plot device in this film. There’s no two ways about it if they genuinely, legitimately want to tie the trilogies together.

    - Obi wan has to be mentioned, referenced, be connected to the world through the force or as a ghost or what ever means necessary.

    - Kylo Ren and Luke need to know about Padme and why Anakin turned to the dark side. Palpatine needs to be referenced more.

    I just can’t see it though. We all know how much potential this trilogy had after the force awakens. We all heard obi wan’s voice and it was him speaking as a force ghost. In the present, right now. So where the hell is he in the last Jedi?


    I think the most we will get is an OT planet or sound track.
     
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  12. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebelscum

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    I think its a pretty tall order but I'm not a writer or director so who knows.
     
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  13. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    I dont think people can really define "tie the saga together". Honestly to me I dont see how it isnt all tied together, but hey thats me.
     
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  14. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Clone Commander

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    I don't believe it's possible to be honest.

    I still feel that TLJ missed a great oppurtunity to work on the threads from TFA and the legacy of Vader.

    Vader is whom is suppose to link the films together IMO. It feels odd that Ben would turn to the dark side, because of Luke sensing the darkness he saw in the Emperor. I say the Emperor, since Luke was able to still sense the light in Vader and eventually rebuked the Emperor by throwing his lightsaber aside. It's hard to believe that Ben would turn on the evidence we have seen and join the FO. It's like your parents fought against the Nazis and are seen as war heroes and then discovering your grandad was a high ranking Nazi official and choosing to go that route....

    Should have been elements of Vader and the Emperor to provide that legacy throughout and RW issues used as inspiration, such as the FO being a terrorist group, as the Rebels were seen to be originally. Not another Empire vs Rebels clone.
     
  15. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think it's real easy. Tying the Saga together is to have one big overreaching arc that has a consistent narrative. Now of course since these movies were all not written together back in 1977, there are going to be some inconsistency's (Luke/Leia kissing in ESB) and it isn't going to tie a perfect bow. But Lucas made the OT, and then tied the PT as the Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. It told the story of a young boy, then a Jedi, he then falls to the darkside, and then is redeemed by his son. That is tying the Saga together as none of that story was there in 1977.

    I have yet to see anything big picture arc that will tie all 9 movies together like Lucas was able to do with the PT/OT. I even said in my original post that I don't think it's really possible to tie the 9 movies together simply because Lucas ended so many plot points in ROTJ, that he or anyone would have had to reboot the story in Episode 7 no matter what. But since JJ came out and said he was going to tie the 9 movies together, I wanted to get people's opinions of maybe they see the movies differently?
     
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  16. GotTheSilver

    GotTheSilver Rebel General

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    I do see the movies differently. I see Ben Solo struggling to deal with the legacy of his grandfather. He keeps trying to live up to that legacy, but failing, and that failure eats him up inside. It's like someone whose father or grandfather started a company and built it into a multi-billion dollar empire, then the younger generation takes over and runs it into the ground. That person always feels inadequate because they cannot live up to the greatness of their father/grandfather. Maybe that story is not as compelling as the fall from greatness and redemption of the PT/OT, but is a continuation of the story nonetheless.
     
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  17. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    I just don't understand why prequel fans feel like their series needs to be validated by being mentioned in the new movies. Unless you are talking about something very loose and casual, like someone being related to someone from the past, I don't see why events and characters from decades ago have any relevance to the new movies.
     
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  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think Disney could have gotten away with saying the ST was an arc that worked with the OT and could be called the Redemption of Luke Skywalker when it is all said and done. The PT/OT 1-6 story clearly works as the Redemption of Darth Vader arc. Episode 7,8,9 could have been the redemption of Luke, but in a different way then Anakin. Anakin's story was about him giving into the darkside, where Luke's story was about how he lost faith in the Jedi and Galaxy. That way you don't have Luke die in Episode 8, but in Episode 9 and you have this great arc from Episode 4,5,6,7,8,9 of Luke being this naive boy, to full Jedi, to old hermit, and back to the proud Jedi at the end of that Saga story. I think many fans who did not like how Luke was portrayed in TLJ, may have eventually got on board when Episode 9 gives the character that shining moment again.
     
  19. Steven Lewis

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    Problem is Vader wasn't a successful figure leading an Empire for the next generation to take over. The Empire is basically the Nazis and Ben's parents are the heroes of the Rebellion against it, shouldn't he be trying to live up to their greatness? All we know is a guy called Snoke appears to have converted him into thinking Vader, his grandfather, was right and he should finish what he started. What is it that Vader started?
     
  20. GotTheSilver

    GotTheSilver Rebel General

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    But what you are laying out as the redemption of Luke Skywalker in your episodes 7-9 is exactly what we got for Luke in Episode 8. He was the old hermit who had lost faith in the Jedi and closed himself off to the Force. Then he reconnected with the Force and became the great hero again, staring down the bad guy and saving the Resistance, as well as presumably inspiring a new generation of Jedi based on the Broom Boy outro. And still those fans who did not like hermit Luke are not on board. The ST gave us that whole arc for Luke and is giving us more. I really don't think we will know what the ST is truly about until we see Episode 9 - the same way we did not know that the OT was about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker until ROTJ.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---
    What matters is Kylo Ren's view of Vader, not ours. In Kylo's view, Vader was the most feared person in the galaxy. He was powerful. He was bringing order to the galaxy. He was an awe-inspiring figure. It was only in a moment of weakness that Vader failed (i.e., killed the Emperor and turned to the light). I think Kylo wants to be what Vader was and complete bringing order to the galaxy. Whether or not Kylo's view is a result of Snoke's manipulation, it is what motivates him.
     
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