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SPECULATION Who knew of Palpatine's double life?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jordan Of Alderaan, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    Through his vague speech to Kenobi in AotC, TCW and the knowing glance immediately before the fateful beheading in RotS it seems apparent that Dooku is aware of Sidious being Palpatine. Who else is though?

    We learn that a few of the Trade Federation guys are in the CIS because they were double crossed by Sidious in TPM and wish to fight back, but do they know that it is actually Palpatine, or do they have a vague knowledge that it's someone?

    Does Grevious know? Or is he kept out of the loop since he's essentially just a brutal weapon?

    Do other separatist members know (e.g. Poggle the Lesser, the Techno Union guys)?

    Do loyal members of the senate know (e.g. Mas Amedda)?

    I thought it would be an interesting point to discuss since it is something so rarely addressed in the canon!
     
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  2. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I would wager that most members of the CIS, Dooku aside, did not know. Otherwise they'd be fully aware that they were being used as pawns for someone else's aims, and if they were in the know of him playing both sides, how could they trust any promises of nobility or planets or whatever he made to them? I'm assuming Dooku knew because the two of them would need to 'coordinate' the war in such a way to achieve their goals.

    I have always wondered about Mas Armedda and Palpatine's other croneys. For example, he has that weird bunch of people with him at the opera (don't know who they are, Senate members or not) who certainly don't look very wholesome, and follow his orders without question or response. Could be that was just due to his status as Chancellor, but still...
     
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  3. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    I had never considered them to be honest! You see a similar group in RotJ in Palpatine's throne room though. I imagine he must have loyal followers that he would confide in to some extent.

    Maul and the leaders of the Trade Federation in TPM are my particular interests since they make references to the Sith controlling the senate but yet don't seem to act upon it particularly. I reckon Maul must have had some knowledge given that he was Sidious's apprentice for so long, although how much would he really know?
     
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  4. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    Ah indeed, I forgot about Maul. Not sure if he would have confided to him those plans. The narrative seems to have sort of evolved to being Maul as effectively what Palpatine was molding into an apprentice, but not fully there yet by the time of TPM.

    As for the Trade Federation people, hm it's been some time since I've seen it so I don't remember exactly what they said or how they said it. It could be simply that they were given promises from Sidious that he held influence over several members. In fact, come to think of it, in TPM he's not even Chancellor but a (up until all the Naboo stuff I believe) relatively unknown senator. I'd figure they would assume he was pulling the strings on some senators, but not think he was one of the senators.
     
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  5. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    You're right about the timing of TPM and Palpatine's status of the time, so I suppose that fits in. I'm pretty sure the dialogue I'm thinking of is in AotC when Kenobi's spying on the separatist meeting on Geonosis and they briefly mention the Sith controlling the senate? I'll have to also rewatch that soon though; it could have been some point in RotS to be honest!

    I'm pretty sure Dooku mentions it to Kenobi once he's captured on Geonosis too when he's playing the "this is a massive mistake, they've gone too far this time" card. I've always found that strange, since Dooku basically says the senate is controlled by the Sith and that's why he's fighting the Republic to Obi Wan and yet not a single thought is cast to the feasibility of that aside from some slight suspicions that Sheev's up to something!
     
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  6. juiceburg22

    juiceburg22 Rebel Trooper

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    Mas Amedda clearly knows. The way he says "yes Master" in ROTS always shocked me.

    Season 6 of The Clone Wars made it pretty obvious that there were certain individuals on Kamino who were in on at least parts of Palpatine's plans. I also got the feeling that the show hinted at Tarkin being involved in Palpatine's inner circle. But the Tarkin novel pretty much said he was only a pawn, like the Separatist leaders used by Palpatine as just a means to an end.
     
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  7. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    I've always figured it was known only to the current apprentice, but you guys have got me questioning that now. Guess I'll be rewatching some PT.
    Great thread!
     
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I guess those who knew of his double life would have been marked for death from the beginning. The list is many so a lot of bribing would have been needed.
     
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  9. Voxx

    Voxx Jedi Hero of Legend

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    I'm assuming only Dooku, Mas Amedda, Anakin/Vader, and Tarkin knew of Palpatine's double life.

    Also, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Padme, Mace Windu, and the Jedi that tried to arrest him.
     
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  10. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    I suppose in many ways he never ceases having a double life. Even as Emperor he's never openly a Sith Lord. It's easy to forget that Vader's not the only one with a hidden and secret past.

    Tarkin mentions in ANH that Vader is the only one left of his "religion" which could be taken to mean force users in general or jedi. If taken to mean force users this would obviously mean Tarkin's unaware of Palpatine's Sith side, but as I said, this could be taken to mean Jedi.
     
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  11. juiceburg22

    juiceburg22 Rebel Trooper

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    No dictator in history has ever risen to power solely by himself. Certainly there had to have been others, but I think your list is all of the ones we see on-screen (plus Maul). The Darth Plagueis book featured a whole cast of conspirators all of whom knew Palpatine's secrets, but I guess most of those characters are non-cannon now...
     
    #11 juiceburg22, Feb 10, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
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  12. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    He rose to a position were no below the senate knew who he was.
     
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  13. Darth Lexor Kai

    Darth Lexor Kai General of the Future Folk

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    starting tomorrow morning ill be marathoning through the series. ill be paying close attention to this. i never looked to far into it before, and its a very interesting question. i always assumed that only a select few knew of the grand plan but never questioned who.
     
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  14. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    Let us know what you spot! In my memory, AotC is the most revealing on that front!
     
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  15. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

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    I've always believed that only Dooku knew up until ROTS when Palpatine reveals it to Anakin.
     
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  16. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I believe so, I think he didn't believe Sidious would throw him to Anakin's blade, just look at his face:
    dooku.jpg dooku 2.jpg dooku 3.jpg dooku 4.jpg
     
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  17. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

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  18. Voxx

    Voxx Jedi Hero of Legend

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    I'm pretty sure Dooku knew Palpatine=Sidious. That look on his face was like, "Wait, master!" *poops his pants* *looses head*
     
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  19. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I guess Sidious was hard to please.
     
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  20. Darth Lexor Kai

    Darth Lexor Kai General of the Future Folk

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    ok so yesturday i watched the entire series... it was a long day but worth it. i noticed just a few people knew of his double life. they were...Darth Maul, the Trade Federation heads, and Dooku. all prior to the reveal of course.

    congratulations @Jordan Of Alderaan this tread was chosen as thread of the week by the Cantina 1030th:)
     
    #20 Darth Lexor Kai, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
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