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SPECULATION Why are Rey and Ren so powerful?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Oct 12, 2017.

?

Why are Rey and Ren so powerful?

  1. Skywalker bloodline

    20 vote(s)
    39.2%
  2. The Force has chosen them

    14 vote(s)
    27.5%
  3. "Volcanic Force eruption!"

    6 vote(s)
    11.8%
  4. Rey is a new chosen one

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  5. Other

    10 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    What power hasn't Luke seen? What are you basing this on?
    Again, where are you getting this? The trailer? Because you cannot presume what Luke is saying based on a couple of lines from an out of context trailer.
    According to Luke where? Ren has not DISPLAYED raw (which means unrefined, untrained) strength. He's displayed the ability to use the dark side of the force. That's it.

    Your initial poll asks "Why are Rey and Ren so powerful". The movies do not show us that Ren "so powerful" as to be special or unique.

    We know he has the force because of his lineage.
    We know he is choosing the dark side because he believes it will make him more powerful.
    We know he thinks Ben Solo was "weak and foolish".
    We know he thought Han was a bad dad.
    We know he struggles with conflict from the light and he believes the light weakens him.
    We know he lost a fight to an untrained force user.
    We know a former Stormtrooper with a lightsaber went toe to toe with him and even got a hit in on him.
    We know he couldn't read the mind of a new force user.
    We know he is trying to impress his dark side master.
    We know he wants to be as powerful as Darth Vader.

    None of what we know tells us he has RAW STRENGTH or is TRULY SPECIAL.
     
    #41 techsteveo, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  2. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I think people are focusing on the word POWER to the exclusion of RAW.

    Its not "I have only seen this kind of power before. Its raw power. We as fans are drawn to the word power we hope to see the new hotness. But in quantifying it Luke is speaking if untrained power, natural ability.

    As for power. In TCW it took several Jedi including Anakin and Windu attempt to force information from Cad Bane. They fail.



    Sure in the OT we saw lots of sensing feelings but Kylo literally reads details from Poe's head. He had some success with Rey before she pushed back.

    Also Kylo is the first person we have ever seen stopped a blaster bolt.
     
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  3. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    and as for the Raw thing. Kylo's foley sound effects around the force is all designed off of fire and animal roars. I think his whole aesthetic design is supposed to mirror his raw power, like the flaming saber.

    and yes he shows a bunch of force abilites that no one else could do. he pulls the guy to him to choke him, which is a step up from vader.
    but like holding a blaster bolt in the air, force paralysis/stasis whatever. extracting information from minds. Vader and Palpatine couldn't do this, they had torture droids.

    He just isn't very well trained. he doesn't move of fight like a Jedi at all. at 30 years old Anakin would have been a much better swordsman and refined fighter than Kylo Ren. I think thats on purpouse. I don't think snoke is training him at all. I think he's just breaking him and trying to mould him into a useful tool
     
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  4. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Snoke uses the words “raw untamed power” and “truly special”. Context is unknown. But only one character we have seen actually fits that description and that’s Rey.

    In one of the toy or book leaks, it describes Snokes abilities and telepathy is one of them. It would be fair to assume Snoke taught Kylo that ability. Same goes for the blaster bolt. Kylo can stop anything in motion, including a person. These abilities are most likely dark side tricks learned from Snoke. Nothing suggests Luke would be afraid of the power Kylo has displayed.

    Another thing to consider is the setting of when Luke says “I’ve seen this raw strength only once before”. It appears they are in the first Jedi temple. There is a seal on the ground. It’s possible he’s talking about something or someone else entirely.
     
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  5. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    But Luke also sees the ground crack during Rey's meditation and he makes nervous faces.
     
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  6. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    Kylo has had training from both Snoke and Luke (up to a point). I mean its probably inconsequential anyway because from all I have seen and read about TLJ, Rian has just turned his back on TFA and gone off his own direction. Expect plenty of plot holes to appear in regards TLJ. Especially around Kylo. No he's not raw but Rian will make him out to be for the sake of Rian's story. He's on his own planet, lives by his own rules.
     
  7. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Yeah I am not seeing that at all.
     
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  8. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    John Boyega has even said its going 360, in one interview. He's mixing it all up. Unlearning everything we know. Such as force lore. Besides Star Wars if full of plot holes which we all have to use our creative minds to make stories fit. I mean Leia is one huge contradiction all the way through. She knew her mother then didn't, She snogged her own brother, then had the force. Its nothing new :(
     
  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Maybe but I think actors are prone to exaggeration.
     
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  10. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Troll much?
     
  11. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    How is speaking about past plot holes trolling?
     
  12. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

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    At this point, i'm really concerned over what they're doing with rey. There isn't a faster way for me to lose interest than to feel like a character is way to strong. Why do i need to root for them if they already have everything going for them? Plus, the more powerful force users are, the less interesting the overall plot is. Remember in that old clone wars series where you had windu and yoda pushing ships out of the sky? That was way overboard. We dont' need dbz levels in star wars. Force users need to remain relatable. As i said, based on what we've seen/heard, i'm concerned over rey's arc. I mean, cracking a rock just by meditating? no thanks.
     
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  13. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    Yeah I agree. they have to be careful not to turn them into super heroes. because the force is more of a guiding light. and the spiritual element shouldn't take a back seat just to make someone look bad ass. I was fine with Lukes level of force power in the OT. it was just like a box of tricks he had that guided him, like enhanced intuition. it didn't make him a god or a superman.
    Kylo Ren's displays in TFA worked well enough for me because he was shown to be reckless and abuse his powers, he's dark side after all.but Rey cracking rocks by meditating, its like the lesson for like was to trust his instincts and put his preconceptions down. thats what he learned from yoda. and I kinda feel like if Rey can just do that crazy stuff from the off, then she won't learn control or need to understand how important it is. I suppose maybe that is her struggle, hence needing a teacher, hence maybe going down a dark path.
     
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  14. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    There’s only one other person that we’ve seen shake the ground and destroy his environment around him just with his thoughts.
    AB5CEC87-3CEE-487D-B7EE-03EEB8B4874D.png
     
  15. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Raw power means potential not that she has already arrived.
     
  16. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I agree. Isn’t she the only one we’ve seen raw power from though?
     
  17. jaqua524

    jaqua524 Clone Commander

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  18. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

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    and even then, it was a fit of emotional rage. He wasn't serenely meditating only to be like "oops i just cracked solid rock without even noticing, meanwhile my uber powerful, legendary jedi master teacher is now shook at how godlike i am for no reason at all."
     
  19. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    A user at TheForce.net described Rey's powers and Rian's vision very good:


    The trailer and the rumors about Rey's violent temper seem to indicate that, rather than questioning whether or not Luke will train Rey and rooting for it to happen, we're supposed to see things from Luke's POV and worry that training Rey will be a mistake. It seems like the audience is supposed to fear that Rey will fall to the Dark side and that is where the suspense of Rey's storyline is supposed to come from.

    A year ago, John Williams described Rey as
    "a woman with the power to destroy the galaxy or bind it together". In a nutshell, he was teasing the central question of Rey's arc. The trailer was also teasing this arc by being edited to make the viewer question Rey's trustworthiness right alongside Luke (by trying to make it look like she falls to the Dark side).

    So I don't think Rian cares that we know Luke will train Rey; he's staking all the dramatic tension of the Ach-to storyline on us questioning whether or Luke will end up regretting training Rey.

    Personally, I feel that that's a mistake. There's not much they can do to convince me that Rey has a chance of winding up evil, so the Ach-to storyline might wind up completely devoid of suspense for me.
     
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  20. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    There was a professional music composer who said well over a year ago that there is a Dark side theme within the John Williams score for Rey. Yeah she is important to the galaxy, but not in the way we might think. She might be like a Galactus. A necessary entity within the force. Dark and light. It's part of the fabric within our Universe, and attempting to destroy it is destroying yourself. Manipulating it is something much more desireable.
     
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