SPECULATION Why Did Ben Solo Turn to the Dark Side?

we do think along the same lines on a lot of things (give or take a few nuances, but we agree on the big important stuff)! : D

i don't think much of the "Maz stole the lightsaber" thing ~ maybe, maybe not. but i do think Ben had it at one time and that it affected him in the same way as Rey. when it happened doesn't really matter since if we are to believe Leia, Ben's mind may not have been his own for some time in terms of how he sees himself and his place in the galaxy and his relationship with the Force.

i think there's a good chance he has seen Rey just as she has seen him, and that's all wrapped up in this too, definitely.

while i agree this was cool conceptually, it doesn't really make sense to me in light of what the whole OT was about and how it ended for Vader. i'm pretty sure they have kept the idea of Luke acknowledging his own Dark side, but the idea of Force ghosts waffling around doesn't make much sense because it cheapens Anakin's journey; makes it one without resolution for all eternity.

 

Here is my speculation- abduction and brutal interrogation/torture shortly after the events of Bloodline.

 

well that's new! interesting! the original plotline did say that Leia and Han were trying to rescue their son.
it would take us right back to stockholm syndrome.
i'm gonna say the chances are slim, but we have no evidence either for or against it, so why not?

 

....Why is everyone overthinking this? It was cookies! Damn Snoke lured him with cookies! I mean Snoke looks like a humanoid raisin, Ben Solo just thought...."He comes from the land of cookies!" And the rest is history.

 

He does have a rather doughy complexion, does he not?

 

If you eat the cookie.....you become the cookie! haha

 

Id say Snoke acted like a father figure to him even more so than Han or his uncle Luke. This probably gave Snoke the opportunity to turn him.

 

I keep thinking about Bloodlines, there isn't a lot about Ben there but the little there is is very interesting.

What I know:

• 6 years before TFA
  • Ben is with Luke and hasn't turned yet
  • Ben Solo finds out at this time that his grandfather was Darth Vader
  • Leah and Han are pretty absent/hands off parents
  • Luke has been away trying to find more information about Jedi lore for a while, "Skywalker had been so long away on his strange quest for the lore of the Jedi that he no longer had much influence outside his own acolytes"
    • I find the use of the word acolytes to be very interesting
    • acolytes definition: one who assists a member of the clergy in a liturgical service by performing minor duties, one who attends or assists a leader
  • Lor San Tekka of the Church of The Force has been assisting Luke in recovering Jedi lore

What I think happened:

• I don't think that Luke set up a full Jedi Academy but partnered with LST and other members (acolytes) of the Church of The Force to try and recover lost Jedi lore in preparation for teaching
• Leah convinces Luke to take on Ben as a student even though he feels like he isn't ready to teach.
• In Bloodlines we see a lot of people looking back on the Empire as a better system of government that failed because its leader was bad not because it was a bad system and they want that form of government back. This form of government is something that Ben, being a child who was neglected by his parents because of a chaotic galaxy is very drawn to. Couple that with Ben and the rest of the galaxy finding out his families connection to Darth Vader and it starts to get a picture of a young man who wants finish what his grandfather started and his parents mucked up. He wants to bring peace to the galaxy.
• Snoke offers Ben the chance to do just that, bring peace to the galaxy and Ben takes his offer. Albeit somewhat reluctantly as we see him struggle with the pull to the light in TFA and that he has not finished his training yet with Snoke. However, by the end of TFA he kills Han and cements his journey down the dark path.

 

Maybe jealously of Luke's leadership & the way the order was going.

 

There's two things that make me think something happened after Bloodline.

Kylo saying to Rey tha Han would have disappointed her as a father in TFA
and Han wishing Ben could forgive him moments before his death (TFA novelization).

Hidalgo has been adamant denying Han and Leia were bad parents or absent..

"For whatever reason – I felt the need to get roped in on – is the immediate assumption regarding Kylo’s disposition, about Kylo being a villain is that, ‘it’s an indictment of Han and Leia as parents’. I don’t believe that and so then I get dragged into that conversation and I realize like, ‘I need to be careful’, because I might be taking away someone’s speculation about Han and Leia – about exactly everything that happened. But at the same time I feel it important to say, ‘It’s not because they’re bad parents. You know, sometimes bad people just happen, you know?'” (September 16, 2016).

Also..
-[Why did Snoke refer to Leia by her first name in the novelization?] Because he did so in the script - seems Leia & Snoke knew each other." (March 3, 2016)
-[How do Han and Leia know who Snoke is? Do we already know, or will we find out?] We don’t know yet.” (March 8, 2016)

I really think we still miss one puzzle piece.

p.s. if you want to read everything Hidalgo said, go here
https://swinfoground.wordpress.com/...gos-answers-to-questions-part-ii/#georgelucas

 

i wouldn't read too much into this.

1. Hidalgo very very strongly dislikes the character of Kylo Ren personally. he's tempered his virulence lately, but a lot of what he says isn't Lucasfilm speaking, it's his own bias. frankly, it's interesting that he has tempered his negative comments.
   
2. Han's guilt and Ben's disappointment don't necessarily allude to a single event. it's clear they didn't have a close relationship before Ben fell and that Han regretted that--and possibly Ben resented it as well. there is also a strong likelihood that Ben generally resents Han for not being able to give him the guidance which he desperately needed, and which ultimately resulted in his entrapment by Snoke.

it will be interesting to see if Ben had any contact with Han and Leia before he lost his marbles, whether it was Luke who put a name to the Dark thing that was pulling him away, and whether they made any attempt whatsoever before TFA to get him back.

they know Snoke, they know what Kylo Ren looks like on sight, but Han hasn't actually seen his face since before he turned probably.

there's so much to fill in!

 

I can very well understand that Pablo dislikes Kylo Ren. Who loves a father murderer, torturer and monster?

 

I would speculate it's similar circumstances to that of the emperor and Anakin, inside his head manipulating him. The promise of power to make things right for Ben

 

Wait, Where does Hidalgo show dislike of Kylo Ren? and in what way? Does he think the character is poorly conceived or something or does he just not like the direction he took the Skywalker lineage or something? Information around this point would be interesting.

 

i can only assume this is a rhetorical question since obviously a lot of people on the Cantina do ~ in spite of himself. [shrug]

early on after the movie came out he was quite open about tweeting his hatred for the character, called him a "sh*t", made many remarks about him essentially being a punk loser, etc. i think his objection is largely grounded in the fact that he thinks Kylo Ren's conflicted nature makes for a poor villain: he compared him at one point to General Grievous and Grievous came out the better for it.

but he also has expressed that Ren is just a brat (though no fault of Han or Leia's: he just turned out bad because he's awful depsite them). as i mentioned before, he's been strangely less virulent on the subject more recently, though still defends Han and Leia. can't tell if he thinks Ben isn't worthy or whatever, but he's definitely had a bee in his bonnet about Ben being a monster entirely of his own making (which again, i think he's starting to back off on now that it's becoming clear that it takes more than one spoiled kid to make a mess this big).

 

Wow, I haven't seen those Tweets. That's quite something.

 

I posted this in the kylo Ren thread, seemed appropriate to repost here:

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---

Two things here:

1. Couresant is still around, isn't it? Why wouldn't Luke send, or go himself, to the Jedi temple/library there? Did some one do that and I'm unaware? There'd be lots of info there

2. Everything you say about the government structure makes sense to me. But the leader was a baddie. That being the only flaw, why would kylo WANT to finish his grandfathers work as the one thing that was the problem? Is he that blind/stupid?

And I ask that last question sincerely. I know early on he was supposed to be nuts, and Skywalkers have a history of being emotionally unstable. I honestly like the theory overall

 

He's also expressed his distaste for "tortured anti-heroes" and villains in general. It's a matter of taste, after all- he is not obliged to like every character. He's not too fond of Anakin either.

 

@nightangel, we have been through this before. We are quite aware of your dislike for Han and Leia's son. For the record - his parents love him. And we also because we love his parents trust them when they think he can be saved, and he will.

No amount of your negative trolling of any Kylo Ren/Ben Solo related threads will change that, so you either accept it as inevitable or prepare to be disappointed. But please spare us (and yourself I must add) the outbursts of negative one-liners of hate that add nothing but negativity to the discussion. Hate leads to the dark side remember.

This is a fairy tale. Not real life. Things that happen are a big metaphor.
It is a pity that you don't understand that rooting for Kylo/Ben is essentially rooting for the Light side/good. We want him saved because the true win of the Light side is not one character who is Light defeats and kills the bad guy (the one on the dark). A true victory of the Light side is when a character who is dark conquers the Dark side in himself and then and only then the Light side can truly have "won". Think about it please.

The irony is that your (only) favourite character in the saga Luke saved and found compassion for a father (figure) murderer (killed Obi-Wan), torturer (he tortured his daughter and Han and we can imagine countless of others) and monster (he has done monstrous things for 20 years) - Vader. And no, as it was pointed out to you by many already, Luke would have saved Vader regardless if he was his biological father or not, because it is the right thing for a jedi to be able to be compassionate and save someone in which he felt true conflict and goodness left. That's the message that the saga has.

And if TPTB have decided to give Kylo/Ben redemption and love you can do nothing about it. There is no problem if he is redeemed, and there is no problem if he is loved and there is no problem if he survives, if he is shown to deserve it.
Repeating that you dislike it is becoming spam and trolling.

Can you now kindly please stop trolling Kylo/Ben's threads and sour everybody's mood unnecessarily with your negativity?

 

@Obi-Wan Solo excellent post. Too bad you can only be give one positive rating so much truth to what is said in it.