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SPECULATION Why Did Ben Solo Turn to the Dark Side?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    leia_facepalm_headshake_2.gif
     
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  2. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Alway thought that the thing to do would be to pop in yell real loud " BEN YOUR MOTHER SAYS TO GO HOME OK CHEWIE LET'S GET OUT OF HERE!" but that would be being a bad father.
     
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  3. Surfinn

    Surfinn Rebelscum

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    This is a fantastic question (in the OP) and a particularly fun subject to speculate because of the brilliant writing in TFA; there's just enough information to leave this open for fan theory.

    I think a major theme involving Ben's character is belonging/self worth. Maybe Han and Leia pushed him to succeed in the way they envisioned for him (possibly a military/leadership position) but he could never quite find his place. Once his power was discovered (and ego), or his ability to use the force, Leia wanted Ben to finally find his place as a Jedi and sent him away to train at Luke's academy.

    Because Ben felt as though his parents pushed him to do what THEY envisioned for his future, instead of providing him with the proper love and support he needed, his ego took over and he decided to pursue his power in the force as a Jedi Master. Since he was sent away from his parents and didn't know Luke well, he was persuaded by Snoke who was quietly observing Luke's Jedi to groom force users to fall to the dark side. Snoke was looking for a second in command, someone who could be both powerful and feared. After manipulating more Jedi, Snoke was able to form The Knights of Ren. Snoke's plan was to murder all the Jedi; Luke was able to fend off the attack (saving himself), but failed to save his academy and students.

    Because Ben was a prime candidate for Snoke's manipulation (desire to belong, explore his power/ego and prove himself), he fell to the dark side and blamed his parents for his departure from the light. Snoke fueled his hatred for Han and Leia, along with Luke/other Jedi by convincing Ren the light is a weakness that must be eradicated; love for his family was the last obstacle he must overcome.

    That's all I've got so far.
     
    #23 Surfinn, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
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  4. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    I don't think this will be the case, but here's my theory on how Kylo joined the dark side:

    Snoke cursed Luke's lightsaber and gave it to a young Ben Solo, before he trained to become a Jedi. Ben received a vision from the lightsaber like Rey, but his vision was a distorted and misleading version of Vader's past.

    In his vision, Ben seen Vader being attacked (at this stage, he doesn't know yet who by) and losing his hand and he sees Vader's body being burnt - basically Snoke planted the seed early that Vader was a victim. This vision frightened young Ben so much he received nightmares involving Vader over and over again. As a result, Ben's mood and behaviour began to deteriorate. He became more angry, frustrated and confused. Leia sensed her son's struggle with the force due to her force sensitivity, whereas Han did not. Leia felt she couldn't help her son overcome these fears so she sent Ben to Luke, believing Jedi training would help. However, this had the opposite effect. Ben felt more isolated, neglected and confused. Years went by and Kylo still wasn't fully in control of his emotions. Then the bombshell. Ben found out that Vader was in fact Luke's father all along. Then Ben receives an epiphany - Luke was the one attacking Vader in his vision. So Ben believed Luke killed Vader out of jealousy and lust for his father's power. Therefore Ben believed Luke was the evil one, not Vader.

    Despite Luke's plead that his beliefs were false, Ben was totally convinced by the vision he received as a child. Consequently, he believed everything Luke built was a sham, so he uses the lightsaber to destroy the Jedi temple and Luke's students.

    The video below demonstrates the kind of vision a young Ben could've received to make Luke be perceived as the evil one. That would give you enough reason to want to uphold Vader's legacy and seek revenge for your grandfather's murder.

     
    #24 Fuzzball, Aug 25, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
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  5. FN-3263827

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    if Ben ever had his hands on that light saber, i think he did see something.
    and if he did, i agree: Snoke has warped whatever it was that he saw.
     
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  6. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Rebel General

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    I think you're on to something. I mentioned this either here or another forum in which I think Ben was being told a lot of stories of Vader that were very
    distorted and, in turn, fed Ben's anger. He may have known of the powerful Sith Lord Vader, but was hidden his blood connection via Snoke. Here Snoke would feed him lies about the powerful Sith and the dark side while the Jedi were seen as traitors. At some point, Ben would find out about Vader being his Grandfather, but maybe the distortion that Luke (all along) was the one who "murdered" him and led to the Fall of the Empire.
     
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  7. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    I would write it that Han and Leia delayed having Luke train him out of fear and all the while Snoke was using mind tricks to twist his young mind toward the Dark Side. It was already too late when Luke began training. Unlike Anakin, Ben was being covertly force trained through the use of the force since childhood.
     
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  8. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    I think it's a great way for Snoke to influence young Ben from the shadows and avoid detection. And maybe the lightsaber was how Vader showed Kylo the strength of the dark side.

    Also, a cursed vision in this style would be akin to the "self-fulfilling prophecy" that Anakin received, but also a little similar to those that appear in classical literature such as Macbeth. Kylo may believe this vision showed him his destiny - bring justice to all those that ever opposed Vader.

    "Many myths, legends and fairy tales make use of this motif as a central element of narratives that are designed to illustrate inexorable fate, fundamental to the Hellenic world-view. In a common motif, a child, whether newborn or not yet conceived, is prophesied to cause something that those in power do not want to happen. This may be the death of the powerful person. The events come about as a result of the actions taken to prevent them: frequently child abandonment sets the chain of events in motion."​
     
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  9. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    This is an interesting take, especially the idea that Ben Solo received a Force vision, too. However, I think the idea that Snoke planted Luke as Darth Vader's murderer in his mind doesn't make sense based on what we know. Mainly, that it was Vader's sentimentality for his son that led to the downfall of the Empire when he chucked old Palpy over the rail... If Luke was interested in taking over power, he would have agreed to replace his father and join the Emperor.
     
    #29 Dark Toilet, Aug 25, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
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  10. FN-3263827

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    i think it's not so much that Luke murdered him as a villain, but just the fact that Luke was responsible for his death ~ Ren Ben could believe that Luke's "seduction" of Vader back to the Light is what killed him.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The obsession with most fans has been about Rey's origins, but I must admit... Ben Solo's turn to the dark side is probably more pivotal to the story. One of my biggest issues with the prequel trilogy is Anakin's turn is just clunky.

    Also, Bloodline touched a little on the fact that Leia didn't train to become a Jedi.

    I'm curious if there's more to why Leia didn't train. Maybe she was afraid to train after what happened. It's possible she didn't want Ben to become a Jedi. If this was something Ben wanted and she got in the way there's a lot of room for manipulation from a third party. Also, she never told Ben about his grandfather. It's kind of crazy to me they didn't tell Ben the truth from an early age.
     
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  12. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Luke probably didn't share his vision of the jedi order's future so Ben broke away.
     
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  13. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    Maybe Luke taught a more passive way and Ben disagreed with this under the influence of Snoke.
     
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  14. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    As his possible number 2 under him that could be the case, I wonder if Ben met Snoke before & he told him the jedi order was doomed under it's current leadership, he didn't want to believe it but then saw changes, possibly staged by Snoke to gain his trust.
     
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  15. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    I even think there was an event after which Ben questioned Luke's methods. Maybe Luke did decide not to save someone or not to interfer and Ben did not understand or accept the reasons. ;)
     
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  16. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I can see Luke making many changes to Jedi code, but one thing he would never, ever change: "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack!"

    This is what doomed old Jedi Order and almost doomed Luke on the second Death Star.

    I can see Ben wanting to use the Force more aggressively. Add Snoke's influence, Ben's sense of entitlement and feeling neglected and lied to by his parents, I can see him thinking that he knows better than Luke Skywalker. Foolish, foolish man.
     
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  17. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I was always thought Luke had always the conscious code of saving no matter the cost or acting for the existence of the galaxy, I hope Rey presses him on it during her time with him.
     
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  18. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Lucasfilm has gone to great lengths to keep us in the dark about Luke. It's probably what I'm looking forward to the most about the next film. Even though this trilogy will focus more on the new characters it's going to be difficult to balance Luke's part.
     
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  19. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    I'm also really looking forward to seeing just what Luke has been up to, and how he might have changed in the last thirty years. (And what Ben's turn has done to him. :() The books have been deliberately vague about the last Jedi...piquing our curiosity!
     
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  20. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Agreed they are very good at doing that, the focus will be on the new guys mainly but out of the blue Luke will do something that we will not expect. I can't wait for Kylo finally meeting Luke, it's bound to happen.
     
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