SPECULATION Why Did Ben Solo Turn to the Dark Side?

maybe there was a confrontation between Luke and Snoke in the past and that's why Snoke looks quite damaged.

 

i don't think this is that crazy at all. Snoke has become the replacement parental figure in Ben's life, but even Kylo Ren can't seem to keep from off-roading a bit in TFA (and Snoke presumably lets him to a degree, as that keeps him out of balance, chaotic).

so long as Ren Ben thinks Snoke is serving him (even as he's being totally used), their relationship is symbiotic. if Snoke breaks that contract--by failing to honor Vader, by refusing to let Ren have Rey, whatever the case may be, Ren Ben will likely rebel (again). his essential nature is still Ben, even if he is corrupted.

also, i don't doubt for a moment that Luke has gone seeking a means to fight Snoke and separate him from Ben. he's not just hiding out, sulking.

 

I thought about that when he talks to Vader's helmet and says "Show me again... The power of the darkness... And I'll let nothing stand in our way... Show me... Grandfather... and I will finish... what you started."

Agree. What if Snoke manipulated that Force vision so he could see a distorted version of the reality?

True. And that's something that can be heard on his plea to his grandfather. He feels the pull to the light and wants to fulfill the destiny of his grandfather without falling into the same mistake.

+1

Someone bring a Corellian ale to this one.

At first I thought Leia not accepting her origin was a big mistake. I wanted her to go over it, acknowledge it and embrace her Force sensitiveness training as a Jedi. But, then I realised that such a situation was a great setup for the ST, as we are seeing.

I know!!! They are leaving us in the dark about what Luke did after getting that Force tree while his twin sister is the voice of the New Republic, married, pregnant and rescuing her husband. I only hope they make a spin-off movie out of it with Sebastian Stan as Luke. (Is that too much to ask???).

 

Totally agree with both! I really hope we will have some a lot of clarifications about this in episode VII or, at last resort, in episode IX. If not, I will force choke the screenwriters be angry. Really angry...

 

i'm down with this. Anakin has atoning to do and this would be a cool way to tie everything together.

 

So this whole when did Ben break bad thing depends largely on when and how Snoke got to the kid (Abram's term). We can certainly rule out that Snoke is some alien from outside the galaxy, as well as most of the former imperials, save perhaps the Operator, Rax. But there is one possibility that pretty renders moot all the questions about Ben (and Luke, too). What if it turned out true when Darth Vader posed that if Luke wouldn't do it, then maybe his sister would? All this talk about light and dark and balance and the two wonder twins are polar too? Snoke could either be a split personality that Leia is not even aware of or he could be a complete fabrication of a wholly dark Leia. How many people have actually met Snoke? Hux and Ren, and Leia, who empatically told Han it was Snoke that corrupted their son. Jedi mind trick anyone? She could have gotten to Hux through Ren, so maybe no one else has even heard of him, let alone seen him?

I know this would really hurt some of the superfans' feelings, but to the broader movie world I think it could be awsome. Maybe this is why Carrie Fischer is having so much fun being back as Leia. She knows she is going to be the ultimate badass. So shoot this down; show me I'm wrong, but don't nitpick. I don't put much stock in anything they say; Leia or Snoke could simply be lying, as could the filmakers (except Pablo - he would never risk losing the sweetest job in the world to mislead a gullible audience)

 

It"s possible Leia could be Snoke, but I don't think so. I mean if she were then she would be part of Han's death. But she was very saddened and felt it in the force when it happened

 

interesting.

to have some fun with this...

we know that Kylo says "show me again" during that speech. whether he's speaking to himself, Vaders helmet or Anakin himself is up for debate.. we simply don't know yet.

let's assume that he has actually been speaking to Anakin:-

The force is out of balance (according to Lor San Tekka)
Anakin brought balance to the force
Anakin's path to bringing balance required him to embrace the dark side and become Darth Vader.
Anakin advises his grandson on how to bring balance back to the force.
Anakin advises his grandson to embrace the dark side. yes.. a light sided force ghost telling his grandson to go dark side.
Kylo thinks that he is on a rightous path to bringing balance back to the force.. Kylo aims to kill both Luke AND Snoke.
Kylo discovers another light sided force user in Rey. i imagine this would mess with his mind somewhat.. which did play out in TFA.

Anakin started to bring balance back to the force.. his grandson will finish what he started.

now don't get me wrong.. when i say he is on a rightous path - he has embraced the dark side and he's committing evil nasty crimes because of it.
what i'm suggesting is that he is on a journey with Anakin with an end goal that is good for the force.

as i said.. i had some fun with your idea @DailyPlunge

 

i don't think we can rule anything out about Snoke yet.

i'm convinced Ren believes this with all of his heart and soul:
that his destiny is righteous even if it is Dark. that he has sacrificed himself for the good of the galaxy.
i'm not convinced it's actually what's going on (Snoke's corruption has clouded his ability to discern his own path).

 

That's why I like the idea that Snoke is the amalgam of all of Leia's dark aide tendencies ( plus her years of resentment towards Han), but she is not consciously aware of him. Snoke/Leia wants Han dead, but Leia can still mourn for him.

 

agreed.

what i get from that chat Kylo has in front of Vader's mask, is that he is motivated.
"Show me again... The power of the darkness... And I'll let nothing stand in our way... Show me... Grandfather... and I will finish... what you started."

motivated... there is a goal there. We we're shown kylo losing his temper like a spoiled child more than once in TFA, and i think we were supposed to see him speaking to the mask and assume "omg that guy is nuts!". i'm beginning to think quite the opposite - that it was a moment of total clarity.

let's alter the first part of his chat..
"sorry granfather.. i'm struggling to keep out the light side and stay dark. Snoke senses it, help me hide it from him so he doesn't discover the mission we're on"

 

yep ~ we oughtn't write him off as crazy ~ he is very solidly invested in whatever it is he's doing and his plan is not about his own acquisition of power; it's altruistic in his own head.
not sure he's plotting against Snoke yet, but he definitely sees Vader as his confidant and end-game; Snoke is a means to it and he trusts Snoke for the moment, but i have a feeling that's about to change.

 

Are they both hinting at this here? Would be interesting.

 

I overstepped in saying we could rule out anything. But let's look at the various Snoke candidates in terms of likelihood of possibility. We could even quantify this likelihood in terms of onscreen minutes of expository monologue it would take to explain where Snoke come from and how he knows what he knows.

Snoke knows that Leia is Vader's daughter and that her son would be strong in force:

Up until events of Bloodline, only Luke, Leia, and probably Han know this (and some ghosts). Maybe someone in Emperor's inner circle was actually hiding in the wings during Luke and Vader's final battle, got the scoop, and hightailed it off the deathstar brfore it exploded, all without being seen. As for imperial military types or ancient alien, I don't have a clue how they could know. Leia? no problem.

Snoke got to Ben Solo presumably before the events of Bloodline when Ben was a young kid:

Same as above, though the ancient alien might have been able to sniff out Ben's latent abilities from across the galaxy.

Snoke is mentioned by/knownonly to Kylo Ren, Hux, Leia, and Han. The Operator Rax could get access to the Solos, but for all the other candidates the likrlihood drops significantly. Here is Leia's first hurdle, Hux. I expect there was some sort of Darth Vader in Back to the Future scene where Leia gets to Hux, the leader or eventual leader of thr First Order, and brainwashes him into believing there is a being who will guide him to victory.

Things are stating to get a bit sketchy here, but Leia as Snoke would make for a great movie

 

I don't think the public knew that Luke and Leia were siblings. In fact when Darth Vader realizes Luke had a sister, he never mentioned her by name. Not even the emperor would know.

 

Everything is possible, but come on, give the woman a break! LOL.Her brother is missing, her son is space Hitler and killed her husband!And yet you want to make her the villain??? LOL.

So far right after ROTJ there is no straightforward mention of Leia and Luke being twins, based on what we have read on the Aftermath books. In Bloodline, there are several mentions that people knew Luke and Leia were siblings.

 

What are you talking about, give her a break? Did you not actually read my post?

I said she couldn't be Snoke, if she were she'd be the coconspirator of Han's death, but she wasn't cause she was sad and felt his death so she couldn't be Snoke