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Why did Luke have to die? Honest question

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Qui-GON29, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Qui-GON29

    Qui-GON29 Rebelscum

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    It's that simple:

    What were Rian's motivations behind that decision? What do you think was his reasoning for such a choice?

    Was it to clear the path for Rey as the sole jedi character going forward? Or was it necessary for Luke's arc?

    I'm not complaining about it, I truly want to understand.

    Cheers,

    ;)
     
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  2. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Sensitive

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    A key part of 'the hero's journey' I thnik is the rise of the hero from 'mentor' to 'master'.

    To do that, the mentor needs the master to teach them, so that they too can become a master. However, to truly become the hero, there can be no other person better than them - but while ever the master exists, there always will be.

    In order for the hero to become 'the greatest', there can be no other to share that mantle. But by definition the master is always greater, because they hold all the knowledge.

    It's a bit of a 'catch 22', which is often overcome by taking the master out of the picture once the hero knows what they need to know. The obvious and probably most certain way of doing that is to have the master die. Then the hero is free to complete their journey.
     
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  3. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Who knows.

    If Ben/Ren dies redeemed or not in 9 then Han & Luke's deaths will seem pointless.

    Another point. If Luke's death was for Rey to continue the legacy of the Jedi then it a mute point since she haves the books & she just end up making all the same mistakes previous generations of Jedi did.
     
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  4. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Personally I would have let Luke die in IX. But it makes sense to have him die in TLJ.

    1) the ST isn't his story any longer. It's the story of Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo etc.
    2) having him as a force ghost is very useful for IX. He can appear to Rey AND Kylo.

    Rian once said he let Luke die because it felt right. It was hard for him, but he thought it would be better for the story he wanted to tell. And that's the point I guess.

    There was always the plan that TFA is Han's movie, TLJ Luke's and IX Leia's. So it's reasonable to believe Luke dies in TLJ.
     
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  5. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    He didn't "die." He became one with the force at will. Much like Obi-Wan.
     
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  6. Qui-GON29

    Qui-GON29 Rebelscum

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    Wow, thanks for all the quick answers!

    I know he became one with the force and thus it becomes a useful storytelling tool for IX, but it does seem it was a matter of not overshadowing Rey as the main protagonist of the trilogy.

    At the same time, personally I felt his "death" scene underwhelming, I don't know why. Maybe I had waited so long to see him on screen again to have it "die" on the same film, that I felt cheated, for a lack of a better term.

    Again, I'm not bashing on the decision, that is precisely why I'm eager to know your thoughts, in order to fully grasp it and enjoy it more.
     
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  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Had he been there the only outcome would have been for Kylo to die or for Luke to die. In this instance Luke achieves a victory for the Resistance while going out on his terms in the most Jedi way imaginable.
     
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  8. Qui-GON29

    Qui-GON29 Rebelscum

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    I think you sold me on that one. It would be tricky indeed to have Luke physically present on Crait and not have him or Ren ultimately die.
     
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  9. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    From a story perspective, it highlights the culmination of Luke's journey. He has found his way back to the Force and is totally unified with it. He has also exemplified the Jedi way by protecting others without violence.

    As a fan, however, it does seem like a loss. I think many of us fell in love with the wise, older Luke of Legends. It kind of sucks that we won't get anything like that in canon.
     
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  10. Aloy of the Nora

    Aloy of the Nora Rebel Official

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    Why did Qui Gon die? Why did Obi Wan die? Why did Han Solo die? Why did Yoda die?
     
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  11. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I think he died and Rian thought it felt right for him to die because Luke finally completed the Hero's Journey. Yes, I am saying RotJ wasn't the end of it.

    Campell explicitly talks about hero's second refusal (first being refusal of the call) - refusal to return. Which is exactly what Luke does. He refuses because he failed integrating what he learned on the journey into the 'ordinary' life, he refuses the responsibility that is part of the journey. The world must come to pick him up (Rey, Yoda) - Campbell calls this 'Rescue from Without'. Luke returns and finds the way to help the Resistance while staying true to Jedi teachings - he becomes 'The Master of Two Worlds', the transcendental hero. He achieves what Campell calls, ironically in this case, 'Freedom to Live' - basically without fear of death. Direct quote: "Be sure that nothing perishes in the whole universe; it does but vary and renew its form." Sounds like a Force Ghost to me. And perfect for Luke's story.
     
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  12. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    Fair enough. I think the situation here is a bit different though, because those characters started out as mentor figures and we're prepped for them to bite it.

    But for Luke, fans were so excited to have him back. When they announced the sequel trilogy, everyone went "Hooray! Luke is back!" Then TFA comes out. "Okay, not yet, cool." Then TLJ comes out and Luke is an island hermit. "Okay, he's not himself, but he'll come back." Then Luke walks out on Crait. "Hooray! Luke is back!" And theeeeen he's gone.

    Tl;dr Luke's death is different because it defies character expectations and denies the fans a long-waited reunion.

    This is perfect. That's why I think Luke's "death" works in-story. Still, the fan in me wishes we could see the old Luke back one more time.
     
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  13. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    If we are pedantic 'bout it, it was Han's death.
     
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  14. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel General

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    To be fair, we were already 30 years too late to see any Luke's adventures and him doing all sorts of cool stuff which none of the old EU stuff was well suited for his current age without doing a recast to a younger Luke. I just wish George did a ST before doing the PT since you don't have to rely on the original cast to do the PT and it could of been done at any point in time. The time for a proper ST was wasted with the PT.
     
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  15. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    It’s the intrinsic drama attached to removing a character’s safety net. How compelling would Rey’s role as protagonist be if the audience knows Luke is still around to save the day? Eliminating that element raises the stakes moving forward.

    The premise entering into this trilogy was that recruiting Luke was the needed solution. Now that’s not an option. The kids have to do it on their own . . . crisis before climax.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Everyone dies.
    Everyone will die.
    No one escapes death.
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Even if I brush and floss? Everyday? Pft, screw it then.
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    especially if you floss.
    dentists are in on it.
     
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  19. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Maybe I am in the minority, but I never celebrated that Luke was back. I celebrated that Star Wars was back. It wouldnt have mattered to me at all had they simply started with new characters.

    Now why did Luke have to move on from the physical realm. I believe both JJ and RJ said that the danger with Luke is he sucks all of the oxygen out of the room. He couldnt be what so many wanted him to be and have a compelling story. He couldnt be the Super Jedi in a cape taking down the FO all by himself. If so then logic tells you the FO should never have been able to develop. Super Luke should have swooped in and taken out the FO at the very beginning. Remember more powerful and experienced Jedi couldnt foresee the rise of Palpatine. Why would Luke be able to be Super Luke.

    So JJ and RJ reached out and used what Star Wars has always used and went back to tried and true Hero's Journey which has already been talked about in this thread.
     
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  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    This trilogy isn't about Luke, but we got a fantastic film about Luke's final days. Luke pulls off one the most bad ass Jedi moments ever. It's a nod to everything we know about him. It's perfect.

    Plus, no one is really ever gone. We know he'll factor in somehow and now he can function as a support character.
     
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