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Why did Obi-wan kill Darth Maul

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Adam812, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    This is something that really bugs me about The Phantom Menace. The big lightsaber duel at the end was great and I liked seeing Darth Maul get chopped in half. But Obi-wan failed to accomplish the objective he was given. The jedi were directed to capture Maul and bring him to the jedi council for questioning. Obi-wan killed off the the one lead the jedi had for solving the mystery of the sith. Yet he doesn't get reprimanded for it. Is there any way that Obi-wan would have somehow injured Maul and brought him to the council? Or was Maul too powerful to not be killed?
     
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  2. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend

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    Probably he actually tried to chop off the legs only but slightly missed. He was just a padawan at that time.

    On a more serious note. I would say he just tried to get out of this alive.
     
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  3. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    It's almost as if failure is a thing but the Jedi Council fail to recognise it!

    That's dangerous thinking! Killing people just because they are deemed too powerful to be kept alive? Should a Jedi have the right to make that judgement? Surely that kind of thinking is a path to the dark side!

    What is the message it sends? Join us or die? If you're not with us you're against us?

    Who is Maul ultimately a threat to? The Jedi's self-appointed role as the guardians and peacekeepers of the galaxy? A threat to the Jedi's own position and power? Jedi crave not those things.
     
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  4. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Jedi Commander

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    Obi-Wan grows into the level-headed space-Gandalf we know and love. But in that battle? He's freakin MAD. Maul just killed Qui-Gon.

    Also, to be fair, he didn't actually kill Maul until much much later.
     
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  5. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    He should have had the high ground in order to do that properly.

    On one hand, yes. Maul passed his whole life training in fighting, and Obi Wan was just a padawaN.
    But on second hand, I think that Obi simply wanted to end the fight the more quickly possible : Qui Gon was about to die, but wasn't dead yet, and I think Obi Wan's 1st world problem was to rescue his master. There was no room left for negociation.
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, I think it's really just a matter of timing.

    Maul was a clear and present threat to the Jedi and Naboo at that time. He'd killed Qui Gon, and moments before his own death, was standing victorious over Obi Wan (who was just a padawan).

    What were Obi Wan's options? Do you really, genuinely think that capture was possible? Because if not...

    He could run, if that was even a viable option. However, that would still lose the potential lead Maul could provide until he resurfaced again, and who knows how much damage he'd do in that time?

    He could die, but that's no good, is it?
     
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  7. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    i'm not sure that he had a lot of choice given his predicament.

    He was weaponless and hanging in that pit.. in an area closed off by those shields that they patiently had to wait for before fighting.
    He thought of a way out.. and it came off. if it hadn't worked.. Kenobi dies imo.

    :)
     
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  8. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    He had no choice?

    It's interesting you use that phrase I think, as "Choice" is a bit of a theme throughout Star Wars. It's a thematic emphasised in ESB through Lando. When he first double-crosses Han and Leia he tells them "I had no choice". Later, he sacrifices and gives up everything he had to save his friends. So he did have a choice. Just not an easy one.

    In ROTJ, in his final confrontation with the Emperor, when all hope is lost, Luke faces an ultimatum - join the dark side or die. In that moment he casts his lightsaber aside. Now "weaponless" (like Obi-Wan) he chooses death, and the Emperor unleashes his wrath.

    Anakin, who up until this point had thought he had no choice but to join the dark side and serve the Emperor, witnesses his son's suffering and his rejection of the darskside and realises that he too can choose - so he rejects the dark side. He turns back to the light, redeeming himself and rescuing his son through self-sacrifice.

    So... did Obi-Wan have a choice?
     
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  9. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Not wanting to spoil or something but it didn't end the way you think.
     
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  10. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    Or maybe it didn't end the way YOU think!
     
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  11. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    The Jedi were an order that pretended to avoid the dark side. They never really did. Luke is the only Jedi I've seen that actually forsake the dark side.
     
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  12. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    of course he had a choice.. i actually said he didn't have a lot of choices.

    i'm neither advocating or criticizing his choice, but like Luke on DS2... choices were slim.
    not sure the comparison works mind... Maul wasn't Kenobi's father (or is he? :D) )

    :)
     
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  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    That's actually a pretty fascinating difference between the OT ant the PT, though.

    In the OT, Luke does try to win through non-violence. He casts away his lightsaber, turns to the light, and his father is redeemed.

    In the PT, this sort of thing is rare at best. Even with Obi Wan vs Anakin, Kenobi straight up gives up on Anakin during the fight.

    The PT is full of situations where it simply wouldn't make sense for a nonviolent solution to be plausible. Like, Lucas forced that hand.
    Could you imagine Grievous giving in to the greater power of love?

    The closest we might get is the look of fear on Dooku's face before his death, but we all know Anakin cuts him down anyway.

    So, when it comes to Maul... I mean, I'd say Obi Wan didn't have a choice. Like, the two don't share a single word between each other during the entire fight, and then Maul kills his master. It's a far cry different than Luke and Vader's relationship in the OT.

    Really, do you think Obi Wan could've talked Maul down? What could possibly be his way to do so?
     
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  14. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Force Attuned

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    I think it was a matter of survival that he did what he did in TPM.

    But it interesting to consider whether he was tapping into some naughty vengeful anger during the fight and what part, if any, that had in his actions and/the outcome of his fight.

    Also I think it’s cool that in the first film of the PT Obi-Wan wounds a sith and leaves them for dead
    (but later it turns out they’re not)
    , in the second film of the PT he is wounded by a sith and left for dead himself (though obviously survives), and then in the third film of the PT he wounds a Sith and leaves them for dead...
    (but...)

    And then in the OT, of course he is ‘killed’ by Vader... but that isn’t the end. It all ‘rhymes’, etc. :)(obi-wan ghost)
     
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  15. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    Possibly not. And the stakes were possibly quite different too. Ob-Wan's self-sacrifice would have perhaps had little meaning.

    If he had chosen death, then he wouldn't be able to teach Anakin, and then Anakin would never grow up to... oh.. hmm... where's that "What if?" thread I saw knocking around?
     
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  16. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    Oh yeah. Forgot about that little retcon.
     
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  17. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Obi Wan sought revenge at first. Then ended up defending himself from being killed. Maul was taunting him and Obi then got the better of him.
     
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  18. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Force Attuned

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    It’s actually a beautiful thing, the way the fight starts with Obi-Wan looking understandably angry because he’s just lost Qui-Gon, but in that anger he loses against an opponent who I think it’s fair to say we can assume is trained to focus and direct his anger. Obi-Wan ultimately succeeds in surviving because he has a moment of calm before his final move, and I would argue takes back the spiritual upper-hand, playing to his strengths and training, rather than Darth Maul’s.

    “Don’t centre on your anxieties Obi-Wan”
     
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  19. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    You score one good point @Porco Azzurro, I would just continue what you started and push it further.
    I will speak of hope :
    1st. The fight begins when the double door opens, and Maul reveals himself to Qui Gon and Obi Wan. At this moment, Obi Wan is with his Master, they are two against one alone : a great hope is with them.
    2nd. The energy fields doors sequence : as Qui Gon is fighting Maul alone, Obi Wan is precluded by the energy doors. Obi Wan starts to loose hope.
    3rd. Qui Gon is hit by Maul and falls. Obi Wan looses more and more hope, as now he stands, little padawan, in front of a confirmed fighter who just killed his Master.
    4th. Maul quite easily defeats the young padawan, makes him fall in the shaft while he throws his lightsaber away. Obi Wan almost looses all his hope.
    5th. During this moment of calm, Obi Wan finally sees the possibility of getting out : he can grab again a weapon by getting his Master lightsaber back, and escape the shaft with a Jedi move. Hope comes back fully.

    So, to me, it's clear: it is the loss of hope who drew ObiWan into the shaft, and it is the recovering of hope that will allow him to finally win the fight.
     
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  20. Sithdämon

    Sithdämon Guest

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    He was to dangerous to be kept alive.
     
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