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Why did Obi-wan kill Darth Maul

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Adam812, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Commander

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    Didn't Yoda order him to?
     
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  2. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Rebel Official

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    Not the film, but I thought it might be interesting to look at what the official novelisation of TPM (Terry Brooks - based on the screenplay and story by George Lucas) says about the moments leading up to the part we’re discussing:

    First of all, slightly off-topic, but I found this sentence amusing for obvious reasons... “Darth Maul walked slowly to the edge of the melting pit, tattooed face bathed in sweat, eyes wild and bright with joy. The battle was finished. The last Jedi was about to be dispatched.” :D

    But anyway, more to the point, it continues on:

    “[...]Eyes fixed on the Sith Lord, Obi-Wan Kenobi went deep inside himself, connecting with the Force he had worked so hard to understand. Calming himself, stilling the trembling of his heart, and banishing his anger and fear, he called upon the last of his reserves.”

    Later on, the Jedi council discuss if Obi-Wan is ready to train Anakin...

    “They knew of what the young Padawan had done to save himself from the Sith Lord in the melting pit after Qui-Gon had been struck down. It took an act of extraordinary courage and strength of will. Only a Jedi Knight fully in tune with the Force could have saved himself against such an adversary. Obi-Wan Kenobi had proved himself beyond everyone’s expectations that day. “Ready this time, he was,” Yoda acknowledged grudgingly. “Ready to train the boy, he may not be.“
     
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  3. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Jedi General

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    Maul was too powerful for Obi-Wan to take alive, given his limited options and his lack training, he cut the bugger in half. So the real question is how much did the Council underestimate the power of Maul?
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, this is what I have from the script...

    So, I'm not necessarily sure that it's fair to say that the Jedi were ordered to bring in Maul alive. They were supposed to discover his identity, which I guess they failed at, but I can't help but think that the Jedi would still be pleased at the defeat of a sith (and protection of the queen/Naboo).

    Now, the "do not intercede if it comes to war" thing... I think Qui Gon may have overstepped his bounds quite a bit there.
     
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  5. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Commander

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    I'm getting mixed up with ROTS, to be honest. Mind you. If it was so easy for Yoda to insist that Obi-Wan kill his own apprentice then it stands to reason that the order destroying the Sith warriror was implicit in the council's instructions to draw out and confront him.
     
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  6. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Sensitive

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    Not necessarily, because it's a descent from Episode I through Episode III. The prequels show us how far the Jedi have fallen. Ordering somebody's assassination is not what Jedi do or should be doing. It shouldn't be easy for Yoda to order and insist on the killing of another living being. The Jedi have fallen from grace and have gone to a dark place. In a manner of speaking, they too have turned to the dark side.
     
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  7. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Commander

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    But even in Episode I they are devoted to a prophecy where one of them destroys the Sith. It's already considered a necessity. I think the fall from grace was inevitable and not just a product of what they became over the three movies.

    And I wouldn't call it assassination if you confront someone in deadly combat.
     
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  8. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Sensitive

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    If it is then that is also part of their failure.

    I don't specifically remember anything in the films about a prophecy to kill a Sith (is that from somewhere else?) but I also don't think the movies are starting at a point where the Jedi are purely virtuous either. They are already doing things 'wrong' and their descent and their failings have already begun.

    I mean, it's clear they take Force sensitive children from their parents to raise them in servitude to the Jedi way, teaching them to deny any emotional connection with family. That's not meant to be right (Yoda and Ob-Wan do learn this by the end of the PT, and when they have two newborn potentially powerful Jedi in their hands that they could have trained, they instead decide they should be raised where they will be loved - with "family").

    It's not too dissimilar to how now in the ST the First Order recruit Stormtroopers - taken as children and raised in servitude to the First Order.

    The Jedi also seem to concede that their prophesies can be misinterpreted. And what is a prophecy if not a vision of the future? "Always in motion is the future" Yoda says. In other words visions of the future cannot be relied upon, yet the Jedi do just that. So relying on the words of an ancient prophecy is another of the Jedi failings.

    That's possibly true as well. In the grander scheme of things, all of the Jedi's flaws and failings are possibly an inevitability out of their control. But they are still flaws and failings.

    Or you could say it's the will of the Force, which implies there is no free will. Which I beleive is a notion Lucas was planning to touch upon in his ideas for the sequel trilogy.

    It doesn't matter what it's called, Yoda sent Obi-Wan out on a mission to kill. And that's not meant to be good!
     
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  9. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Commander

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    Well that's what I'm saying. They weren't shown to be in a position of grace to begin with in Episode I. They just happened to be pre-eminent in the galaxy. The circumstances of Episodes I-III show that they were never really prepared to practice what they supposedly preach.

    Yoda's readiness for Obi-Wan to destroy Anakin was not a symptom of the evolution or deterioration of Jedi practice. It was a continuation.
     
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  10. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Rebel Official

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    I was thinking about this he context of the OT too... I guess Yoda and Obi-Wan still appear to be of the mind that ‘destroying’ or ‘confronting’ a Sith implies, or even equates to, killing them. They tell Luke he has to confront Vader, and Luke tells them he can’t kill his own father...

    Later of course he does indeed confront him, and I would even argue he destroys him (Vader, the Sith persona trapping Anakin the Jedi), (further possible revelations in TRoS notwithstanding!!).
     
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  11. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Sensitive

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    Yes... I think Obi-Wan and Yoda still have some of the trappings of 'old ways' of the Jedi in the OT.

    Obi-Wan more so than Yoda perhaps, who seems to glorify the old days (in that way that older generations tend to do!). He makes reference to 'cunning warriors', though 'wars not make one great', and is maybe still blind to some of the Jedi's failures. Not to mention the glorification of his Jedi weapon. Maybe it is 'more elegant' than a blaster, but it's still a weapon.

    But even Yoda would appear to find it difficult to let go of some of the old Jedi ways, insisting that Luke is "too old" like he insisted Anakin was too old, before finally agreeing to train him (although this time around it could just be that he's just trying to test Luke's commitment).
     
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  12. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Rebel Official

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    In some ways the PT is like the Old Testament of the Bible and the OT is the New Testament... which would make Luke like Jesus. But of course Jesus died and then rose from the dead so if the analogy followed through they’d have to call Episode IX something like ‘The Rise of Skywalk...- ‘ ohhhh...

    ;):D
     
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  13. Randy Butternubs

    Randy Butternubs Rebel Trooper

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    Instead of doing a risky jump, why didn't Obi-Wan force pull the lightsaber towards Maul and then ignite it?
     
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  14. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Rebel Official

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    Good question.

    Maybe he thought Maul would be able to deflect or doge that more easily. Also he was physically at Maul’s mercy, so as well as coming up with a way to defeat Maul, he also had to come up with a way to avoid Maul finishing him off.

    He only really had that one chance I guess. I think he defeated Maul almost as much by the surprise of performing such an acrobatic, Force-powered leap as he did by simultaneously escaping the pit and reclaiming his lightsaber and igniting it all in one smooth motion. Maybe if any of those three things had been separated (the leap, the lightsaber being reclaimed and igniting it) Maul would have been fast and skilled enough to counter him - and then maybe he would have either killed Obi-Wan before he got another chance, or else destroyed the lightsaber before Obi-Wan could reclaim it, or else won another duel (the odds were he would have I think - he’d just done it twice already).

    But that’s just my take on it. Maul wasn’t Snoke and Obi-Wan wasn’t Kylo... but I can see why the idea might seem a good one after seeing that! Maybe it could have worked. But Obi-Wan’s way worked too. For the time being...
     
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  15. Rellum

    Rellum Rebelscum

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    He didn't really hesitate second time round either. Maybe Obi One just really dislikes Maul. First impressions and all that.

    Why he didn't get reprimanded? Because the movie is terribly told, GL had no real control over what was happening.
     
  16. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Commander

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    The thing that truly bugs me about the scene is Maul doing a "what's he up to?" take while Obi-Wan is looking over to his master's saber. Telegraphing the whole thing for a several beats before it actually happens.
     
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  17. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Rebel Official

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    I like that, but I would be lying if I said I hadn't ever imagined Scooby-doo voice-over (Hwouuh?!) at that exact moment in my head. :D
     
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  18. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul in the heat of battle . . . or a duel.
     
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