Why did Palpatine recruit Anakin?

The dark side always leads to overconfidence. Palps believes he's got Anakin hooked, like a fish on a string, to his claim that he can save Padme from death. He admits that Vader is becoming more powerful than him or Yoda, so I guess he was overconfident in his own abilities and was surprised when Anakin's abilities surpassed his own.

This was a really interesting topic @Pobody's Nerfect!

 

Well the clone army would soon die out, but that's a different point.

His power might seem unchallenged, but he knew there would be Jedi who survived the purge, and Vader is a clear choice for that. Who else but the greatest Jedi to ever live should go hunt down the remaining Jedi?

But, more importantly, I think he needed some help with "sith stuff". It's hinted at a lot in the new cannon that he and Vader were working on other things that didn't pertain to the Empire, but more than likely to the force. Searching the unknown regions, looking for the wellspring, maybe locating Snoke? Who knows right now. But Vader was more than JUST an enforcer if you ask me.

 

Well the Death Star is what inspired people to rise up against the Imperials in the first place.

Also Palpatine needed Vader because he was able to be his enforcer. Palpatine has a Galaxy to govern and as he gets older he would have needed more Apprentices or just a More Powerful apprentice.(hencewhy he wanted Luke to kill Vader ). Sidious' is powerful but he still needs help to maintain control

 

With Anakin being the Chosen one, in a way he is also the “choosing one” - like, it is his destiny to choose the winner between Jedi and Sith. You could interpret the idea of destiny to mean that, no matter what, Anakin will end up in the middle of the conflict one way or another.

So if you want to win, you probably want Anakin on your side.

 

This!

Palpatine's most likely heard of the story of The Chosen One, and seducing him to the Dark Side most likely meant to Palpatine that the prophecy wouldn't come to fruition. Besides, even if Anakin isn't The Chosen One, he's still an incredibly powerful Force User...an incredibly powerful Force User that's an outsider to the Order he belongs in yet is still highly regarded by the populous.

 

Your stance here relies on a heavy amount of assumption that is not supported by the movies (and is in fact debunked by the movies). Your first assumption is that only the Jedi deem the Sith as evil and that it is only a "religious war". It seems pretty clear that the Sith are deemed an evil organization by the Republic as Palpatine keeps his allegiance hidden from everyone, even after becoming "legally" elected (which actually could be up for debate as he manipulated events in TPM to basically push himself into the Chancellorship).

Furthermore, legally or illegally elected or not, once Palpatine outs himself as the Sith Lord, well than he has also admitted to treason against the Republic. At the onset of ROTS, we see that the Jedi are aware of Dooku being a Sith, and with the revelation that Sidious was the Master, well than it becomes obvious to all that Palpatine has created a false war against the Republic. Once the public finds out that Palpatine is the Sith Lord, well than there is a long list of charges that can be levied against Palpatine. Treason, Genocide, Murder, War Crimes, Election Fraud, bribery, coercion, and probably dozens more charges that could be levied against a politician for the decades of deceit that Palpatine was involved in that led to his rise to power. Your other assumption is that the courts were fair, they were not, as the movies tell us. Not just from Mace either. AOTC tells us that Palpatine has the courts in his pocket as well, as Gunray and the Trade Federation are never truly punished by the courts (even after multiple attempts) after the events of TPM.

Sio Bibble: It's outrageous! After four trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the viceroy of the Trade Federation! I feel the Senate is powerless to resolve this crisis.

This is obviously due to Palpatine's behind the scenes machinations, and shows just how much his evil and influence had made it's way thru the Republic. There would have been chaos in the Senate(if Sidious was outed as Sith) as everyone tried to figure out exactly what happened and how deep Sidious's evil roots had taken hold. While Sidious had control of the courts, he doesn't want his true allegiance known because once it's out there, well, than those senators, planets, systems that are still devoted to Democracy, and are aware of what a Sith is really looking for, will than revolt against him. Which is what we saw in the OT. The Jedi were able to at least let some people (Bail Organa) know what Sidious was and what he was up too.

Let's also not forget that the Sith did control the galaxy at one point, and it would be easy to imagine what their idea of "peace" would be...

Sidious: Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace.

So it seems pretty clear that Palpatine isn't just hiding his identity because of a Religious War, as if the Republic itself doesn't recognize the difference between the good guys and the bad guys. As if the Republic doesn't recognize the difference between a Nazi and not-a-Nazi. Palpatine has every reason to hide that he is a Sith from everyone.

This assumes there are video recordings in the War Room... Furthermore, again, the assumption is that the Senate itself wouldn't tear itself apart once it became obvious that Palptine was a Sith. Palpatine needs the Senate to remain intact in order to keep control over the galaxy, at least for a short while until he can exert his military might. Sidious doesn't want thousands of Jedi left alive sitting in prison (where they might one day be used against him), he wants thousands of Jedi dead, so he can spin any story he wants. In Sidious's eyes, the only good Jedi is a dead Jedi. A Jedi left alive has the chance of hurting him, of telling the truth of what happened in those last years of the Republic.

You answered your own question, as the evidence is in the movies....

Sidious: You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us.

Clearly Sidious is all in on making sure that the Sith survive for a very long time. It's clear Sidious is all in on the Sith way, the leap frogging effect that the more powerful Sith overtakes the weaker Sith as the apprentice outgrows the master. Sidious was counting on this effect. Sure, Sidious planned on living for a very very long time, but, I am sure he knew one day his time would come at the hands of his Apprentice, no matter who the apprentice was, so it was his duty to make sure it was as powerful an apprentice as he could find in order to ensure the Sith Order survived. This is why Sidious was so quick to throw Vader to the side in order to bring Luke on board. Luke was the promise of the power that Vader lost when he became a crispy critter on Mustafar.

So yeah, the answer is quite simple, Sidious wanted to ensure that everything that he and the Sith had worked towards for the millennium it was thought they were extinct for, survived. Vader was supposed to be exactly that.

But he did need an enforcer, it's quite clear from the OT that Vader is Sidious's attack dog. Even after Order 66, there are still Jedi out there, and every Jedi that survived the initial purge, was a Jedi that carried the truth and could influence Palpatine's enemies. Let's not forget that it was Vader's job to hunt down and murder the remaining Jedi.

Sidious's legacy wouldn't have gone very far had he put a weak Sith Lord as his second, and that weak Sith Lord allowed the new Sith Empire to crumble. Sidious definitely wanted a legacy. Much like Hitler wanted to build the Reich in such a way it would be a "thousand year Reich"...

 

Because younger Anakin was Force Sensitive, dumb, impressionable and gullible. He's no brain surgeon and was easy to manipulate by Palpatine as his apprentice and next heir apparent.

 

BINGO! Undoubtedly his ego. Palpatine was more than capable of holding his own with anyone in the galaxy, but despite all that power he had and gained over the years -- he knew his job would be easier if he had an apprentice carry out the dirty work for him while commanded the empire from afar and planned out his conquests.

I believe and always have that it was mainly for his ego. Sidious truly felt as if he was the culmination of what the rule of 2 had built up to (which I suppose he was in a way) and never planned to lose his dominion. As we see in Ep3 he has Anakin usurp dooku's place as apprentice when the time is right, and in Ep 6 he was hoping for Luke to usurp Vader for the apprenticeship. Palpatine wanted power forever.

 

No I don't see where your coming from, because it seems that in order to make your point meet your narrative, you're ignoring one huge overwhelming difference between the Jedi and any of the real world religions you named. The Jedi are not just another religious order. They are the Republics police force, they are the Republics peace keepers, they are the Republics diplomats, ambassadors, negotiators, they are the Republics detectives, special forces, intelligence organization, body guards of high level diplomats, record keepers, and consultants on important matters, the list goes on, on how important the Jedi were to the Republic. The Republic and the Jedi operate together within the Democracy. The Jedi answer to the people's voice, which is the Senate, and the people continuously turn to the Jedi for help. And at extreme times, turn to the Jedi to be their warriors.


So no, I don't see where your coming from and your "though experiment" fails because it isn't a true representation of what the Jedi were. The Jedi aren't just some religion that is one of many religions. The Jedi are the organization that the Republic, the Senate, the people turn to to protect them.


Your entire stance stands on the premise that the Republic only sees the Jedi as some silly religious group with no real presence in the Republics political structure, which is completely incorrect. When what is a more likely scenario is that the Republic as a whole understands that the Jedi are the good guys and that the Sith are the bad guys, and it is why the Republic has chosen to work with the Jedi as they have for over a thousand generations (as per Obi Wan).


Again your entire premise diminishes the Jedi down to just a "sect" when the fact of the movies shows that they are much more than that, trusted more by the Republic than just some fringe religious group. Your premise assumes that the majority of the Republic are just plain stupid to what the Sith are and want.


The entire reason why Sidious has to hide in the shadows is because if he came out of the shadows, even after being elected, he knows that the Republic itself wouldn't stand for a Sith being in power.

 

Unlimited Power .

 

No not like the Templars. The Templar's were not attached to any sovereign country, they were attached to a theocracy. They were the military wing of a specific religion that imposed their will on the subjects that fell under the church. How the Jedi operated within the Republic, and how the Templar's operated within Europe at the whim's of the Pope, couldn't be more different. What got the Templar's killed was the fact that they had become more of a economic powerhouse than a military powerhouse.

The Trade Federation seems to be quite aware of what someone calling themselves a Sith Lord means...

Nobody saw them as a threat? The Trade Federation saw them as a threat, they seemed awfully scared of Sidious, scared that there was now 2 of them, and scared that Maul was going to join them.

As I stated earlier, your stance presumes that somehow the Republic is stupid as to what a Sith means and wants. That an organization that once ruled the Galaxy, and ruled what is now known as the Republic wouldn't be known and looked down upon if someone came out and said they were a member of? Especially when one has the Jedi and their knowledge at their beck and call.

You don't think that a thousands years from now that if someone came out and said that they were a member of the Nazi Third Reich, that people wouldn't know what the Nazi Third Reich did, what they represented? And that those people wouldn't be looked down upon? That just because the Third Reich was destroyed, that history would just forget about them, what they did, and how much of a threat they were, and not look down upon anyone calling themselves a member of such an organization?

The Sith were thought extinct for a millennia, or in other words, a thousands years. We here on Earth have a pretty good idea on our human history well over a thousands years ago. We know who the bad actors were from over a thousand years ago from our own history. Your stance relies on everyone just being stupid...

Listen, it's not my fault you are making horrible analogies, and giving bad examples. As I explained once already, the Jedi were not just some sect or fringe religion, they weren't just a small subsection of the larger military wing.

If we are talking in terms of our U.S. government, the Jedi were the U.S. State Department, they were the FBI, the CIA, the NSA. They were Secret Service, they were the Navy Seals. They were the U.S. Capitol Police. They were Chiefs Of Staff, they were cabinet members. The list goes on and on and on as to how many hats the Jedi wore within the structure of the Republic.....

You continue to try and trivialize and minimize the role the Jedi played in the Republic in order to meet your narrative.

You want to paint the Jedi with the simplest of brushes, and paint them into these small tiny roles, such as a sect, or a fringe element, or a small sub-section of a part of a military. The Jedi's role in the Republic was far more respected, far more expansive than what you continue to want to try and portray them as. This is what the movies show us. They aren't the military wing of a religion, that doesn't answer to the people, the Jedi answer to the people, they serve the Senate, they serve Democracy. Are they perfect, no, but, they are much more than what you want to deem them as so you can make your point.

In order to make your point, you want to diminish them to something less than what the movies show us they were so that you can meet your narrative that the Senate would have sided with Palpatine had the Jedi arrested him, because all the Jedi were was a sect just involved in a Religious war and had no authority to arrest a member of the Senate (even though in TPM the jedi take part in a war that results in the arrest of a member of the Senate)... That the Senate and Courts would just see the arrest as an ongoing feud between the Sith and Jedi.

When the fact is that once Palpatine is outed as a Sith, then all the evidence points to his, and the Sith's role, in playing both sides of the Clone Wars, and Palpatine's treasonous behavior. Your stance wants to play on some kind of imaginary anti-religious sentiment within the Republic that is not displayed anywhere in the Prequels, where the Jedi and their opinions, and what they know would be just brushed aside because the Republic all of a sudden is stupid and doesn't know history, and even though the Republic uses and trusts the Jedi in so many dozens of different ways, for over a thousand generations, that all of a sudden, the Senate and courts are just going to see the Jedi are just a fringe religious sect...?

I know exactly what you are saying, and I am simply disagreeing with you on the foundation of your argument. You won't get me to agree with you that the Republic, after a thousand years of hand in hand service with the Jedi, are just all of a sudden brush the Jedi off as some minor religious, fringe element, that falsely arrested Palpatine simply on the basis that he was a member of the opposing faction of some Holy War. Especially when the movies show the opposite.

Edit: and part of the reason Sidious wanted Order 66 was because that way there were no Jedi around to counter his claims of a Jedi revolt and coup. He controlled the information.

 

Interesting points.

It's a bit hard to say how Palpatine would have gotten away with everything since, on the one hand, we have perfect real-world analogies in the existence of democratic republics with the same type of laws and principles, but then we have to account for the fact that this involves space wizards.

I think it comes down to this: being a Sith would be an arrestable offense, right? As you said Mike, the Jedi are an extension of the Republic, and it kind of goes vice-versa a bit as well, and even though it's a bit muddled by the religious aspect of the Jedi, the Republic sides with them and employs them as millennial-long intergalactic police, ambassadors and diplomats, and seems to agree in general with their stance that the Sith are, by their very definition, evil. The best analogy in our world would be how it is illegal to be a member of the actual Nazi party. It's maybe not 100% perfect, but I think it's a good comparison at least.

Anyway, it really all depends on proving that Palpatine is a Nazi, I mean, er, Sith. And if he just denies it, then I don't know how you could prove it. It raises the issue of what kind of security they have in the political buildings in the Republic. I don't think most heads of state in the real world have security recordings in their offices, do they? Like, the Oval Office is not bugged. Would it be fair to assume the Republic functions similarly?

The Jedi could arrest him, perform a midichlorian test and go--"aha! Look how powerful he is! This guy is majorly powerful in the Force!" But that doesn't prove he is a Sith, just that he has a high midichlorian count. Isn't there an expression that says that intent is 3/4 of the law or something? It would be almost impossible to prove, and impossible to launch an investigation without evidence, and he could use Force to detect if the Jedi were trying to plant bugs in his office and he could probably trick a lie detector too. Even if the Jedi could say "I sense he is lying", he could just reply that maybe the Jedi are just wrong--they are not infallible, they get things wrong. So their "Force sensing" might be useful for leading investigations but can't be used as evidence on itself. It's interesting to consider what Episode III would have been like if he just played innocent, he probably could have gotten the Jedi outlawed for attempting a coup just by playing coy to it all, knowing they could never prove anything.

Anyway, as to why he recruited Anakin, he already had Dooku around, so he clearly wanted a second Sith to help him out with things, and Anakin was the best option. Dooku was old and had his own agenda but Anakin is young and easy to manipulate, a far better underling, and he's stronger than Dooku. Palpatine pitting the two against each other is a good contest, if Anakin kills Dooku then it proves he's stronger, if Dooku kills Anakin than I guess Dooku was better all along.But I also don't think Order 66 was necessarily going to happen so soon. Palpatine does it immediately after he kills the Jedi coming to arrest him. Is it just a coincidence that Mace Windu and the Jedi show up like 10 minutes before he was planning on activating Order 66? Maybe, but I doubt it. The same sort of thing happened in Episode I ("we must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops... I will make it legal"). Maybe he planned on getting rid of the second Sith by the time he was going to activate Order 66, but now he's sort of improvising. I think Rogue One shows that Vader does have use that a regular bad guy wouldn't, a bad guy that can use the Force will always be better, he just has to watch his back for a coup, but I think that's why Anakin is an ideal pick, Palpatine kind of has him wrapped around his finger.

 

I think he wanted to turn the jedi who arguably had the most potential, and who also carried the flaws of anger and fear that could lead him to the dark side.

I also think he was a true believer in the Sith way, were it was common for the apprentice to eventually kill and overpower his master. That way the Sith could continue to grow stronger each generation. Palpatine wanted the strongest jedi turned...and the Chosen One profecy could also be interpreted as to bring balance to the force where the jedi were annihilated in number to match the already near extint Sith.

 

Because he was far younger and more powerful.