1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Why didn’t Kylo Ren use Sith lightning?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    698
    Likes Received:
    1,185
    Trophy Points:
    7,392
    Credits:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +1,824 / 46 / -7
    As far as I can remember, Ben never used Sith lightning. I know he wasn’t exactly a Sith, but since Snoke used it, it seems like it should have been possible. Is there a reason why he didn’t use it?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    The never thought he needed to. Vader never used it either IIRC.
    I'm sure there's some convoluted "canon" reason tho.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    103,282
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    56,746
    Ratings:
    +111,959 / 176 / -32
    So far force lightning was only used by people who didn't wear gloves (Canon wise), maybe using that power would ruin Kylo's gloves. Haha!

    But on a serious note- I think you have to be committed to the dark side completely to use that ability.
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    I had that same thought but...

    DelectableAridAfricanhornbill-size_restricted.gif
     
    • Like Like x 7
  5. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    10,131
    Trophy Points:
    88,717
    Credits:
    9,500
    Ratings:
    +11,194 / 9 / -5
    vader would electrocute himself. also more mechanical attachments weaken your connection to the force. That's why lumiya knew that she could never achieve full sith mastery
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    The honest answer here is probably gonna be "cuz Palpatine bloodz"
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
  7. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    10,131
    Trophy Points:
    88,717
    Credits:
    9,500
    Ratings:
    +11,194 / 9 / -5
    maybe kylo has too much conflict in him. In legends, there was emerald lighting, which only accomplished jedi could use, like juyo or vaapad but with lightning. Maybe that is why rey could do it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    698
    Likes Received:
    1,185
    Trophy Points:
    7,392
    Credits:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +1,824 / 46 / -7
    Vader couldn’t use it because he didn’t have real hands. I’m pretty sure that was officially confirmed. At one point, the official site went into great detail about the difference between “gesturing while using the Force” (like Force strangling) and “using the Force through your hands” (lightning).

    I don’t think Maul ever used it either, but maybe it just doesn’t work for Dathomirians.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    10,131
    Trophy Points:
    88,717
    Credits:
    9,500
    Ratings:
    +11,194 / 9 / -5
    yes, vader couldnt use it because of his hands.
    and maul used force lightning once and it was red. one of the weirder colors, though jaina solo used black lightning and the hidden one had white lightning.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    Like with all things with the force, it's completely arbitrary
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  11. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    3,255
    Likes Received:
    8,566
    Trophy Points:
    87,567
    Credits:
    13,186
    Ratings:
    +10,962 / 197 / -29
    I was about to write (and I'm doing so) that force lightning was something exclusive for Sith Masters, and not for apprentices. But then I saw the gif of Rey destroying that ship in TROS...:confused:

    But I know that what JJ was trying to do was to link Rey and palpatine before the final revelation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,342
    Likes Received:
    82,964
    Trophy Points:
    171,417
    Credits:
    48,427
    Ratings:
    +87,870 / 84 / -31
    Even Luke knows force choke.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. delph

    delph Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Posts:
    162
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    697
    Credits:
    618
    Ratings:
    +305 / 4 / -0
    I didn't think too much about the fact that Kylo could have learned about using lightning. Maybe because only Palpatine could?(emperor) And Rey is his granddaughter? And Snoke is a Palpatine's creation? I am not sure... Regarding Vader, I didn't even know he could have used lightning because I thought only The Sith Master could. And it wasn't a matter of robotic hands.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    21,980
    Trophy Points:
    149,167
    Credits:
    19,951
    Ratings:
    +26,705 / 65 / -37
    My hope is that this doesn't lead into canon commodification of power. I'd hate to see stuff like "Well, Palpatine was a Sith Arbiter, while Vader and Ren were Sith Enforcers- it's not even in the Enforcer's upgrade tree to get Force Lightning!"

    However, I wouldn't mind the idea that force users tend to express their own quirks through the Force.

    For instance, Palpatine likely saw himself as an extension of the sith tradition, thus choosing such an iconic way to express himself through the Force. Meanwhile, Vader was cold and efficient- choking would do. Even Obi Wan, the classic Chaotic Good, showcases his moral ambiguity through mind manipulation.

    For Ren... well, I guess I could make up something like "he wants control, thus uses the Force mind extraction technique", but I think that's a reach. What seems all the more likely is that we never really see Ben using all that much of a signature Force technique, and maybe that's all the answer we need. He's not disciplines enough to have a signature use of the Force yet. In fact, we see how reactive he is on the DSII fight, when he tries using the Force to stop Rey's lightsaber mid swing, a trick she had just tried on him literally seconds before.

    And to be honest, I don't think it's entirely fair to say that this is quite a canon explanation. Likely it's a more thematic one- the screenwriters using a character's harnessing of the Force to show things about the character, and I think that's quite clever. I also think, in some cases, that it wasn't particularly well done. Maul and Dooku, for instance- though both's characters shine through in other stylistic ways.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    And Ezra was able to control people or whatever.
    The Force does whatever the Author needs it to do and always has. Fans and gaming tried to commodify it (see @cawatrooper post above mine) when there was no new Star Wars being created by Lucas. And I suppose you need it that way for role playing games. But the truth is, in official LFL media, it's almost always just been arbitrary to whatever the author needs it to do for the story.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  16. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    3,365
    Likes Received:
    48,910
    Trophy Points:
    171,477
    Credits:
    16,174
    Ratings:
    +56,032 / 9 / -3
    Which is totally fine with me personally. In fact I prefer it to having some sort of structured "can and can't do" type of list for each force user.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  17. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    87,467
    Credits:
    6,862
    Ratings:
    +10,330 / 40 / -11
    Yeah, goes along with the fairly justified criticism of why ‘Ben’ had such a hard time with the KOR. Shouldn’t he be able to just pick this handful of goons up and toss them in a hole or something? Probably, but the story they decided to go with demanded he struggle in that moment. So he stands there while they take turns roughing him up. In a better constructed script, they would have devised a more explicable scenario, but it is what it is <shoulder shrug>.

    I’m sure if we bother to invest the time and energy, we can come up with a plausible in-world explanation, but the real answer is ‘plot’.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    I've always preferred the lack of definition for what the force can or cannot do. The mystic nature of it made it feel more real to the world.

    Agreed it's double edged sword, though the simple answer is probably just have them be force users too and now it's Ren vs a bunch of force users and then they don't even need a reason he's struggling beyond that.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    87,467
    Credits:
    6,862
    Ratings:
    +10,330 / 40 / -11
    Or since they were clearly playing up the Harrison Ford-ness of Ben (and Indiana Jones in general for this movie) anyway, maybe do a riff on this:
    [​IMG]
    Oh no, not the dreaded Knights of Ren!!!
    <swat>
    "Alright, where's Rey?"
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    If they would have just done an "Adam Driver as Harrison Ford Greatest Hits" montage as he fought to Rey I would have died.

    Just work this in:
    200 (2).gif
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
Loading...

Share This Page