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Why didn’t Kylo Ren use Sith lightning?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    As far as I can remember, Ben never used Sith lightning. I know he wasn’t exactly a Sith, but since Snoke used it, it seems like it should have been possible. Is there a reason why he didn’t use it?
     
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The never thought he needed to. Vader never used it either IIRC.
    I'm sure there's some convoluted "canon" reason tho.
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    So far force lightning was only used by people who didn't wear gloves (Canon wise), maybe using that power would ruin Kylo's gloves. Haha!

    But on a serious note- I think you have to be committed to the dark side completely to use that ability.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I had that same thought but...

    DelectableAridAfricanhornbill-size_restricted.gif
     
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  5. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel General

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    vader would electrocute himself. also more mechanical attachments weaken your connection to the force. That's why lumiya knew that she could never achieve full sith mastery
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The honest answer here is probably gonna be "cuz Palpatine bloodz"
     
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  7. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel General

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    maybe kylo has too much conflict in him. In legends, there was emerald lighting, which only accomplished jedi could use, like juyo or vaapad but with lightning. Maybe that is why rey could do it.
     
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  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    Vader couldn’t use it because he didn’t have real hands. I’m pretty sure that was officially confirmed. At one point, the official site went into great detail about the difference between “gesturing while using the Force” (like Force strangling) and “using the Force through your hands” (lightning).

    I don’t think Maul ever used it either, but maybe it just doesn’t work for Dathomirians.
     
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  9. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel General

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    yes, vader couldnt use it because of his hands.
    and maul used force lightning once and it was red. one of the weirder colors, though jaina solo used black lightning and the hidden one had white lightning.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Like with all things with the force, it's completely arbitrary
     
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  11. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    I was about to write (and I'm doing so) that force lightning was something exclusive for Sith Masters, and not for apprentices. But then I saw the gif of Rey destroying that ship in TROS...:confused:

    But I know that what JJ was trying to do was to link Rey and palpatine before the final revelation.
     
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  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Even Luke knows force choke.
     
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  13. delph

    delph Rebel Trooper

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    I didn't think too much about the fact that Kylo could have learned about using lightning. Maybe because only Palpatine could?(emperor) And Rey is his granddaughter? And Snoke is a Palpatine's creation? I am not sure... Regarding Vader, I didn't even know he could have used lightning because I thought only The Sith Master could. And it wasn't a matter of robotic hands.
     
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    My hope is that this doesn't lead into canon commodification of power. I'd hate to see stuff like "Well, Palpatine was a Sith Arbiter, while Vader and Ren were Sith Enforcers- it's not even in the Enforcer's upgrade tree to get Force Lightning!"

    However, I wouldn't mind the idea that force users tend to express their own quirks through the Force.

    For instance, Palpatine likely saw himself as an extension of the sith tradition, thus choosing such an iconic way to express himself through the Force. Meanwhile, Vader was cold and efficient- choking would do. Even Obi Wan, the classic Chaotic Good, showcases his moral ambiguity through mind manipulation.

    For Ren... well, I guess I could make up something like "he wants control, thus uses the Force mind extraction technique", but I think that's a reach. What seems all the more likely is that we never really see Ben using all that much of a signature Force technique, and maybe that's all the answer we need. He's not disciplines enough to have a signature use of the Force yet. In fact, we see how reactive he is on the DSII fight, when he tries using the Force to stop Rey's lightsaber mid swing, a trick she had just tried on him literally seconds before.

    And to be honest, I don't think it's entirely fair to say that this is quite a canon explanation. Likely it's a more thematic one- the screenwriters using a character's harnessing of the Force to show things about the character, and I think that's quite clever. I also think, in some cases, that it wasn't particularly well done. Maul and Dooku, for instance- though both's characters shine through in other stylistic ways.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    And Ezra was able to control people or whatever.
    The Force does whatever the Author needs it to do and always has. Fans and gaming tried to commodify it (see @cawatrooper post above mine) when there was no new Star Wars being created by Lucas. And I suppose you need it that way for role playing games. But the truth is, in official LFL media, it's almost always just been arbitrary to whatever the author needs it to do for the story.
     
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  16. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
    1030th General **** (Mod)

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    Which is totally fine with me personally. In fact I prefer it to having some sort of structured "can and can't do" type of list for each force user.
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Yeah, goes along with the fairly justified criticism of why ‘Ben’ had such a hard time with the KOR. Shouldn’t he be able to just pick this handful of goons up and toss them in a hole or something? Probably, but the story they decided to go with demanded he struggle in that moment. So he stands there while they take turns roughing him up. In a better constructed script, they would have devised a more explicable scenario, but it is what it is <shoulder shrug>.

    I’m sure if we bother to invest the time and energy, we can come up with a plausible in-world explanation, but the real answer is ‘plot’.
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I've always preferred the lack of definition for what the force can or cannot do. The mystic nature of it made it feel more real to the world.

    Agreed it's double edged sword, though the simple answer is probably just have them be force users too and now it's Ren vs a bunch of force users and then they don't even need a reason he's struggling beyond that.
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Or since they were clearly playing up the Harrison Ford-ness of Ben (and Indiana Jones in general for this movie) anyway, maybe do a riff on this:
    [​IMG]
    Oh no, not the dreaded Knights of Ren!!!
    <swat>
    "Alright, where's Rey?"
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    If they would have just done an "Adam Driver as Harrison Ford Greatest Hits" montage as he fought to Rey I would have died.

    Just work this in:
    200 (2).gif
     
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