Why Disney understands the force...and Lucas didn't

Under Lucas the Force was a power you tap into. How you choose to use that power determines whether you are good or bad. How much time and practice you put into it determines what you can do and how many abilities you can use. GL also strongly suggests that having a teacher is of great benefit and not only speeds up the process, but shows a wider array of applicable functions for the Force.

In the ST, the force is more like a Biblical power given from God. Ones faith in its use is all one seems to need to tap into various applicable functions. So training is no longer required to learn new skills. Basically if the Force chooses you or if you are talented enough, you can do it all as long as you have faith that the Force will do it.

I don't know if Disney understands the Force more or if they just changed (or tweaked) it to fit their story. I'm not a fan of the change, though considering this is all fiction, I'd be hard pressed to say it isn't possible within this universe. It's just that it isn't how it was introduced to us over the first 6 movies. However, the Jedi (and by extension the Sith) were flawed and were not in tune with the natural Force compared to their predecessors, this is made clear in the OT and TPM in particular so it's quite possible the rules that we were shown in the first 6 movies was Jedi doctrine. Now so much how it worked, but how the Jedi thought it worked. For the most part it was consistent enough that most Jedi never questioned it. They followed the rules and most got better. Those who failed may have simply just been considered too weak, undisciplined or lacking in some other way.

Before the Force was more static, though even with the PT it started to have more of a will. That will has become more prevalent in the ST. In fairness, in the OT more force users had been hunted and killed by Vader. The ST has only added a bit to the idea that if the Force has a will enough to make a child, then how far can we take that idea? With Anakin they had space Jesus, now with Rey we essentially have space Moses, as much like Moses, she is granted those powers by simply having faith, while not being born with it.

Is it better, is it worse? It's neither, it's simply a different interpretation. It works within the universe, I'm not a fan as I preferred it as more abstract, but I can't say it can't be this way. Within the canon it still fits. Might even fit better. Maybe this is what GL intended all along and some of us fans just didn't interpret it that way. In fairness we were never given the full picture, and when a picture was painted, it was tainted by the perspective of the characters doing the explaining.

I preferred the Force when it was less deity and more just a mystical energy field that penetrates everything that you can tap into if gifted enough, has the appropriate qualities and if you practice enough. Now one can argue all you really need is faith.

 

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-midi-chlorians-facts-trivia/

Lucas probably didnt understand the force since he created it... oh wait...ohh

 

Regarding the whole 'midichlorians introduced classism' complaint: isn't it pretty much the same thing as when Luke said in ROTJ 'the Force is strong in my family'. The idea that certain bloodlines possessed stronger affinities for the Force was already in canon before the prequels...so what's the problem exactly?

 

So you're suggesting Disney executives know more about Star Wars than one of its creative directors? Sure, Jan.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2018 ---

It always surprised me people thought The Force was mystical, and not something scientifically scanable in people. Otherwise how would it pass along through family members, a la the OT?

 

It's different to have a family that just happens to be naturally good, and really it's just two people. Luke and Vader.
Midichlorians present a measurable method of determining someones value as a force user.
That's creating classes. Whereas it could be strong in his family but nothing before midichlorians dictates that's it's more than Luke making anecdotal evidence to say something to Leia without SAYING it.

Real life example:
Ken Griffey Sr was a very good baseball player.
Ken Griffey Jr was one of the best natural talents to ever play.
Trey Griffey....was an alright WR at the University of Arizona playing a different sport.

Junior could have easily said "Baseball is strong in my family!" well, it was...for two generations.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2018 ---

Happenstance.
How does it explain non-lineage Jedi?

 

Midichlorians were absolutely implied in the OT. Luke is believed to be "the only hope" (later, alongside Leia) simply because his father was/is a powerful Force user. This then means that Luke, genetically, had the Force potential within him, to be more powerful than most other Force users. If this wasn't the case, why in the hell didn't the Jedi train someone else from birth instead of waiting for Luke?

All midichlorians do is provide a connection to the Force. The more you have, the more naturally powerful you are. Those born with high levels have an easier time of connecting to the Force and, if they work hard, will become extremely powerful. But that isn't to say that those born with a lesser midi count cannot reach the same levels - should they train hard enough.

 

1. By the Jedi you mean hermit Obi-Wan and hermit Yoda? Two people in hiding where taking and training a child would completely out them and expose them to Vader?

2. They are clearly stuck in adhering to a prophecy mode. That's why they wait for Luke.

 

Why would that have outed them? Far riskier for them to train reckless Luke before he could actually control his emotions and power. Clearly, they saw him as the last hope, as Kenobi says. If anyone could become powerful in the Force and Luke’s genetics didn’t play a big role then they could’ve and would’ve trained anyone.

The prophecy only came into the story in the PT. Before that, the OT made it clear that Luke was powerful because his father was powerful and that he was the only hope (and Leia).

Post PT that story changes in that it includes the prophecy. But it doesn’t change the idea of why Luke was so important - regardless of whether the Jedi believed in the prophecy or not (strikes me that Yoda didn’t and Kenobi was clinging onto the idea that Luke was the chosen one). The reason they wait for Luke is that they trust in the force to let them know when the time is right.

But the simple point is that Luke was born with the potential to be very powerful because of his genetics. That was always the case. Even before Vader was made his father, going right back to the early drafts of ANH. There has always been a strong genetic element to Force power. It’s not the be all and end all - but genes are important and thus midichlorians have essentially also always been a part of this story.

 

Taking a child and training them would likely create attention. Not to mention the disruptions in the force...like Vader felt with Luke but Luke was older. A child would have been DOA. And what parent given the state of the galaxy would give their child up for that life?

But it doesn't imply that there's a caste system. There's a great difference.
This is the point of Luke's speech on Ach-To. It's hubris.
The Skywalker family is a clear exception to rules because:
a) they are the main protagonists so of course they are supped up.
b) they are "created" by the manipulation of the force. they are technically a corruption of the force.

If lineage mattered like that, what is the explanation of Palpatine? Yoda? Obi-Wan?

 

i just replied to you in another thread on a similar topic to this.

i honestly think there are natural explanations for the way the Force has been behaving. i do not think that the Force is a deity, nor is it necessarily moving in that direction.

i think the Force is more like the ebb and flow of life. it's not terribly difficult to come up with examples in nature to help explain what all is going on.

 

I really should’ve read your whole post in the other thread! Lol.

Yes, this. The Force is the collective consciousness of the galaxy.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2018 ---

I don’t get your argument. Even when we just had the OT, it was clear that Luke was powerful because his father was and that the Jedi saw him as the last hope.

Thus genetics and by extension, midichlorians, have always existed within this story.

As for other powerful force users - clearly it’s also the case that you can randomly be born with great force power or that some of the Jedi and Sith had parents who simply never learned the ways of the Force and their natural power was never cultivated.

 

Too bad Luke wasn't Vader's son when ANH was developed. And despite the reports on midichlorians in the early versions of ANH, Lucas entirelly dismissed the idea when RotJ and presumably ESB were being developed.

"Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.
Marquand: They use it as a technique.
Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody."

- Geroge Lucas to Lawrence Kasdan and Richard Marquand, 1981
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html

See also that little detail about Yoda and fighting...

 

Anyone can use the force but some are born with more natural abilities, is all. I don’t think anything Lucas has ever said contradicts that.

Interestingly, Yoda had a Force ghost sparring session with Kenobi in Leigh bracketts esb script...

 

This is just the last damn straw. Who paid you to post this? Disney?

 

You're entitled to your own opinion and so is he, so stop insulting people that don't share you view of Star Wars, no matter how right or wrong any of you are.

 

Considering the number of times I have been personally insulted on this message board, I honestly don't care. And your . . . admonishment has not changed my opinion of this view that the Disney Studios understood the Force better than Lucas.


By the way, Lucas has already established that people who are not part of the Skywalker lineage have powerful connections to the Force. This is why a Jedi Order was established by Lucas in the first place. Pointing out that Rey "was no one who came from no where" was a redundant act by Disney. Lucas had already proven this with Anakin.

But Lucas also wanted to tell a family story in his saga. And now apparently, Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson and others seemed to think there is something wrong with a family saga in the Star Wars franchise. Screw Disney, screw Kathleen Kennedy and screw Rian Johnson.

 

What are you talking about? Only those who have midichlorians can use the Force. It's a necessary vessel to communicate with it. This was made more than clear in the PT...

 

I do not disagree on you in that issue - Lucas created the concept of the Force and he's the one who gets it the best by default. I understand that you dislike The Last Jedi but calling out that someone was paid by Dsney because he shared an opinion you disagreed with is wrong (did I fill my daily pro-Disney quota? Yes! Those three villas on Côte d'Azur won't pay for themselves.)

 

And everyone has midichlorians. Some are born with more than others.