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Why Palpatine returning makes sense.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Adam812, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi Commander

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    Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean, I think what I said was fairly clear... (“I think most of the reasons fans speculated that Snoke might be Plagueis, for example....”)? And was the ‘disagree’ rating you gave me really necessary just for an opinion you don't agree with? Bit harsh, but it does show you read that post where I’d outlined the kind of things I meant specifically, making your reply above more confusing to me.:confused:
     
    #221 Porco Azzurro, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  2. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Commander

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    Hey, I'm not angry with you nor hate you in anyway. I simply disagreed. If it is adverse to you in some way then I don't care enough that I wouldn't remove it.
    I'm not trying to create needless suffering and gnashing of teeth.

    I still don't understand how about anything you stated causes this make any sense though, it is incoherent to me even in the last example you gave.
    Fan theories that Snoke was Plagouis (or even it actually being the case) doesn't make this add up.

    It is just unimaginative and sloppy writing with a big heaping helping of fan service more dedicated to "tying up the Saga" than telling the story.

    Still a decent and enjoyable move overall but all Palpatine plots and plans are effing goofy and phony feeling.

    The whole idea was a mistake, the character was already over exposed in the prequels running just up to edge of being a corny joke and this one took his hammy self one toke over the line.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2020 ---
    I'm typically with you but there is some space between nonsensically tacked on to serve "wrapping up the saga" and the fruit of some really unimaginative storytelling and being spoonfed.

    Of course I'm less concerned about the mechanics of his presence than his presence at this point in the story at all, having him be connected to Rey, and especially his stupid plans.
     
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  3. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi Commander

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    Thanks for your friendly reply and removing the neutral rating :)

    I’m sorry Palpatine’s return didn’t work for you like it did for me. I wasn’t saying fan theories that Snoke was Plagueis in itself explained Palpatine’s return, rather that the examples of evidence cited that that might have been the case also now works as supporting foreshadowing (from a certain point of view;)) now that we know Palpatine returns.
     
  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    giphy (66).gif
     
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  5. Veronica

    Veronica Rebelscum

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    [​IMG]



    Don't see what was 'un-imaginative' or un clear about the film. Was pretty clear to me.
     
    #225 Veronica, Mar 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  6. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Commander

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    Unclear isn't the same thing as stupid and incoherent.
     
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  7. Veronica

    Veronica Rebelscum

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    The opinion still holds the same for what I posted above. I found nothing incoherent (or whatever substitute word you want to use) or "stupid" about it. I found it to be a very straightforward, and intelligent film with a lot of depth.
     
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  8. Lenerith

    Lenerith Rebelscum

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    Quoting a Friend: "Anakin did destroy the Sith. Palpatine died, and he himself confirms that.
    But true evil cannot be defeated forever, and this is why new generations of heroes must always arise."

    Any Thoughts on this`?
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I agree with that second part at any rate. That was one of the central ideas proposed in TFA: “Through the ages, I've seen evil take many forms. The Sith. The Empire. Today, it is the First Order.” Whatever it decides to call itself, evil is evil.

    To quote someone who isn’t my friend, Edmund Burke: “Evil prevails when good men do nothing.” Evil will always exist. Whatever its shape, it will always try to exert control. But that’s not always the case for good. People have to be inspired to put aside their self-interest and complacency to act in defiance of evil. We have to relearn that ever so often and the ST serves that function handsomely at least.

    The first part though is kinda dicey. The significance of destroying the Sith, from the perspective of George’s story, was that they were chiefly responsible for the Empire and the darkness it spread. Destroying them, destroys their Empire and eliminates that darkness. Not ALL darkness, but THAT darkness. And that would then restore ‘balance’.

    Turns out though, neither the Sith or the Empire had actually been destroyed. They just laid dormant, waiting for their opportunity to strike. No different than they had before the events of TPM. So, if things weren’t in balance before, why would they be balanced after? Nothing actually changed.

    The only way to rationalize that is to redefine the intent. To pitch it instead as a pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other, in a cyclical never ending tug-of-war between light and dark. That works too, I guess. Provides job security anyhow :)
     
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  10. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    A lot of Kasdan's thoughts in Star Wars are this, and Lucas has talked periodically about the same thing.
    I'm not saying it's a built-in design from the onset, but it is deeply sympathetic with some of the fundamental writing motivations.

    I frequently refer to the PT as swinging to the left, and the OT as pulling to the right.
    What I find interesting is that the ST does both simultaneously and then slams the two threads against each other in the end because unlike the previous two trilogies we are given both the protagonist and antagonist growths and stories in concert to each other.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  11. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    If they had planned it this way they could have sprinkled in hints in the first two. Seemed and was a rescue operation.
     
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  12. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    @RockyRoadHux and I had a confusing thought about Palpatine's return. Why does Hux leak Palpatine's return to the Resistance when Palpatine already did or wanted to do it himself?

    The movie opens with "The dead speak." - So our heroes and villains already know about Palpatine's return. Futhermore Palpatine revealed himself prior is Final Order, mainly because he wanted to give the systems a chance to bow to him.

    So, Hux leaking Palpatine's return doesn't really makes sense. Unless Palpatine wanted Hux to leak this information... :rolleyes:
     
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  13. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

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    Well, not exactly. They know a transmission from a source claiming to be ex Emperor Palpatine is threatening the galaxy. Hence, why after Hux's leak they say "it confirms the worst". They were apprehensive about believing he'd truly returned, and not dismissing alternatives like someone faked it. He'd been thought dead for 31 years at that point.

    Hux's leak is focussed around the Final Order and their location. Something Palpatine did not want known until the opportune time. Confirming Palpatine's return is just additional data.
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    What @GingerByte said. The important piece of intel there is Palpatine’s secret lair. Luckily, Rey had just been reading “Exegol for Dummies”, so the plot could start.
     
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    That's my favorite book in Luke's library!

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    It’s pretty funny to me that Luke apparently considered his personal ‘Grail Diary’ a “sacred Jedi text”. What was the legacy of the Jedi again? :D
     
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  17. blame182

    blame182 Rebel Commander

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    I think Palpatine didn’t revel himself until TROS because he feared Luke would hunt him down. It’s established in Rise that Luke was already looking for Exegol, so I’d assume once Luke is out of the picture Palpatine sees the coast as clear. He absolutely thought he’d be able to successfully manipulate Kylo & Rey, but obviously underestimated them. As Luke once said to him “Your overconfidence is your weakness”.
     
    #237 blame182, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Weird that he would wait a year after the fact. I guess he wanted to be really really REALLY sure that Luke was gone. So much so, he let the Resistance rebuild itself and Rey train as a Jedi. Meh, you can never be too careful I suppose - especially when you're so overconfident :)
     
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  19. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I mean...aside from the obvious citing of The Last Crusade going on in the movie, if magic woowoosauce was lifting planes, giving matrix combat powers, lighting crap on fire with lightening after death, shooting lightening from the hands, and there was this super occult nazi-esque like version of the religious access to the woowoosauce...I'm pretty sure the local archbishop would have a f###ton more than one diary of their own in the sacred text section ... because ... dude ... sh#ts real. Like...we're in the da#n trenches being shot at real.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    “Built a thousand generations ago to keep these: the original Jedi texts . . . . except for that one on the end there. That one’s mine. It’s the one with the unicorn doodles on the cover.”

    It’s not a nitpick. It’s just funny to me. Just me?
     
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