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SPOILER Why Rian wrote Luke's character the way he did...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by techsteveo, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    ARTICLE FROM BUSINESS INSIDER http://www.businessinsider.com/rian...uke-skywalker-storyline-the-last-jedi-2017-12

    There’s a lot to digest after watching the latest “Star Wars” movie, “The Last Jedi,” but perhaps the biggest is Luke Skywalker's return to the franchise.

    Following “The Force Awakens,” where the Jedi master shows up in the last shot of the movie and doesn’t utter a single word, “The Last Jedi” picks up right at that moment. For a lot of the story, we stay with Luke (Mark Hamill) and Rey (Daisy Ridley) on his secluded island.

    [​IMG]

    “The Last Jedi” director Rian Johnson said that was the first big hurdle of writing the script — why was Luke on that island and why won’t he leave?

    “I had to figure out something that made sense, and you don't know much about where's Luke's head is at coming out of ‘The Force Awakens,’ Johnson told Business Insider. “For me growing up, I know Luke as a hero. I know that he must think he's doing the right thing by taking himself out of the equation, and that means he thinks the best thing for the galaxy is that he's not a part of this and, by extension, that the Jedi are not a part of this. So that leads you down a certain path.”

    The path Johnson took was exploring Skywalker as he’s riddled with guilt for believing he failed as a master Jedi by trying to show Ben Solo (aka, Kylo Ren) the ways of the force, only to realize his nephew is drawn to the dark side. Skywalker is even more frighted when he finally gives in to Rey's request for training and realizes her enormous raw power in the force.

    [BIG SPOILER COMING!!!]

    Eventually Luke does leave the island — not physically, but through a force projection — and comes to the rescue of the Resistance. In doing so, he goes up against Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) using the force in an extremely clever way. However, the power exerted by Skywalker leads to his death as he fades away with his cloak flying off into the breeze.

    “As I worked out that his arc was going to be coming to a place where he does this big heroic act that is going to be spread throughout the galaxy — basically taking back the mantle of Luke Skywalker, a Jedi master, a legend — it just slowly became clear to me that it would be this big grand act,” Johnson said of writing Skywalker’s final scene. “It would be an act of mythmaking. And if there was ever going to be a place in this entire trilogy to give him this emotional moment of a goodbye, this was probably going to be the most emotionally potent place to do it.”

    But, how did Hamill take the news?

    [​IMG](L-R) Rian Johnson and Mark Hamill. Charley Gallay/Getty

    “It wasn't the thing he wanted to necessarily hear,” Johnson said with a laugh. “Understandably so. Mark had all these years to think what Luke's triumphant return would be. Luke's the hero coming back into this story, and the fact that this character and this movie could not be that — this character in this movie was by necessity what he had to be, and also in relation to Rey, that brought its own necessity.”

    Johnson said that if Skywalker just came back like he did in the original trilogy, an optimistic fighter, he’s just an older version of Rey. And Johnson needed someone to bounce up against Rey.

    “It’s not what Mark had in his head initially, and that's why he's spoken very openly about his being caught off guard by the script and where the character ends up,” Johnson said. “But I knew this is where it had to be. We got into the conversations, and we got into the work, and we talked, and we argued, and we discussed, and that process ended up being very good for the character and also for our working relationship. It was a very good one.”

    However, anyone who knows the “Star Wars” saga is aware that the Jedi always come back to give guidance to their pupils. What Johnson did in “The Last Jedi” sets up that possibility for “Episode IX,” which will be directed by J.J. Abrams.

    “I’m not sure what J.J. and [screenwriter] Chris Terrio are going to do in the next one with Luke,” Johnson said, “but setting up possibilities for the next one, honestly, it seems much like Obi-Wan going where he did after 'New Hope.' The possibilities seemed even more exciting in terms of what Luke's place could be in the next chapter with him entering into this other realm as opposed to him having a lightsaber and being with our heroes. It opened more possibilities as opposed to fewer.”
     
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  2. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I completely accept and appreciate what was ultimately achieved in The Last Jedi.

    It's certainly not without its faults. What film is? But, for me, and speaking only for myself, I felt it concluded as it needed to end.

    That said, there are any number of reasons Luke could have been on that island:

    He could have been sick, clinging to life via the Force while waiting for a student to "pass on what he has learned" (as per Yoda).

    He could have been dealing with a particular Force mystery or challenge, and the arrival of Rey could have been the missing puzzle piece.

    He could have been learning about The First Jedi (singular or plural) and needed or welcomed Rey's help in order to complete a quest in order to take on Snoke and The First Order.

    He could have been Force-drained by Snoke (as some had suggested on this forum) and therefore recuperating or waiting for someone like Rey to educate and help him to retake the challenge.​

    Just four hasty examples among a million others people could have better conceived of with greater consideration.

    Certainly, I would have written TLJ differently, if given the chance, (except for this particular scene I described last year) but I accept the story as it is because the more important metaphorical aspects of what I would prefer to emphasis, with regards to Luke, the Jedi, Rey, and the Resistance, do resonate or appear if one can peer past the surface and all things ostensible.

    With IX now to look forward to, I hope our community can positively put forth ideas which might go on to inspire the storytellers while there is still time to make a positive difference in the conclusion of this important saga.
     
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  3. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    This version of Luke was GREAT. Very wise, but affected by the past because he's only human. He obviously didn't want to teach Rey everything he knew, I guess he thought the right thing to do was to let her figure it all out by herself, which is awesome because it shows great faith, either in Rey or the force itself. Not to mention his sense of humor. I thought watching him mess with Rey was hilarious, but then he messed with Kylo and it got even better. He wasn't just a Jedi master, he was also a master troll, and everyone can learn from that haha
     
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  4. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    When Luke said, “see you around kid”, it felt like something Han would say. I loved that he evoked Han being forever with him haunting him.

    People that wanted Luke to be like 25 year old Luke, can’t seem to understand, that ship has sailed. If they wanted to do more of Luke in his prime, then George would have needed to do it a long time ago. I thought this Luke was a great balance of tormented Master who had his failures and Legendary Jedi Master who is trying to revive hope in the galaxy.

    Now, I really wish we would get an animated series set between ROTJ and TFA to fully flesh out the gaps.
     
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  5. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    And it also meant that he still had faith in his nephew, which is great.

    Me too. And I love how everything Luke says and does has a double meaning. He tells Kylo that striking him (Luke) down will mean carrying yet another burden, taunting him. But at the same time, he makes it impossible for that to happen by not being there at all. Throughout the entire exchange, the infuriates and helps Kylo in equal measure. He's a good uncle lol

    Exactly.
     
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  6. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Sensitive

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    It's indicative of the 'trickster' archetype he takes on in the 2nd Act of the original film - coming up with a sneaky plan (that doesn't work) to get into the detention area and rescue the Princess (as well as trick in the Ewoks in ROTJ).
     
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  7. Violet Gekko

    Violet Gekko Clone

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    This version of Luke is very Wise?

    Obiwan in ANH is very wise.
    Yoda in ESB is crazy and wise.

    He should has been the one to teach Rey about the dark side of the force, not otherwise.
    He should has been the one to tell Ben that he is sorry, and he loves him.

    His lines and actions in TLJ has no connection what so ever.

    MOD EDIT
     
    #7 Violet Gekko, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2017
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  8. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    So you wanted to see a remake of ESB? Luke did tell Ben he was sorry.

    Man, you can't please people. Biggest concern going into the movie was "don't be an ESB remake". Biggest complaint about TFA was "it's a beat for beat remake of ANH". Then you get a different movie with different situations from different characters with different force abilities being showcased and what do we get? I HATE IT.
    No wonder JJ played it safe to kick things off.

    To me, they handled Luke just right.
     
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  9. NinoWan

    NinoWan Clone

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    The whole idea behind letting us see a moment with Luke that will become an all time myth - that 's good stuff. Can you imagine a witness telling a buddy about what he saw in that last battle? "And then, Luke skywaker said...."

    Myth indeed, and I agree we had seen the other aspects of Luke already. I LOL'ed as soon as he chucked the "lightsword", and was hooked on his every word the rest of the movie....just enjoyed it.
     
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  10. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    That would be awesome. It would be interesting way to show how Luke rebuild the Jedi order and the series can end with the events shown in Episode 7 and 8. Unless they did a stand alone movie (which I don't think people are ready for a re-casted Luke), Animation would be really the best way to show it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2017 ---
    Like father like son, right?
     
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    RJ did well. I liked this Luke.
     
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  12. Lance Toris

    Lance Toris Rebel Trooper

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    Thought the same thing. Would be amazing.
     
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  13. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I really don’t know why Mark Hamill is on this campaign to tell us how he disagreed with Luke. I really think he’s out of touch with the story. Luke went out as the Ultimate Legend. He did exactly what he said he couldn’t do. He faced down the entire first order with a laser sword. The cool thing is they probably don’t know if he’s alive or dead. In the GFFA, the people probably think Luke is alive. He will have inspired uprisings all over the galaxy. All of a sudden, there is hope that this new oppression from the FO can be defeated.

    My biggest issue with the Sequels is that we got very little about how the FO was able to return with Snoke at the helm. I still think we need some exposition there. Even if it treads into boring prequel politics dialog, we could use a few minutes to understand and put everything in perspective.
     
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  14. Aglarion

    Aglarion Rebel Official

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    Maybe just like many of us he simply thinks Luke's behavior is at odds with what have know from Luke before. I don't think it's a campaign, it's just his genuine opinion and while he tries to be diplomatic the simply can not lie about it.
     
  15. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    I think Rian Johnson was trying to fix the plot hole of Luke’s out of character in TFA. RJ was trying to rationalize that in a way that is rooted in character and feels justified.

    Luke being flawed is not a new thing. He felt the pressure of destroy Sidious with his Dad and that affected the way he trained his nephew.

    It might not be the best way but it is the most effective way if you want to make sense of his absence in the last film.

    Him trolling Kylo Ren was my favorite part, just totally pushing his buttons, brilliant
     
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  16. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I get that many many people think that. I’m just trying to understand why. Luke was impulsive right down to the last few minutes of ROTJ. He got angry TWICE. Attacked the Emporer and then almost killed Vader being impulsive. He has always stopped himself short of turning. That’s just Luke.
     
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  17. Aglarion

    Aglarion Rebel Official

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    Remember that despite everyone telling him his father could not be saved, he still insisted that he could, he was willing to give up his life for it, he went to the death star prepared to die, and yes he fought him and got angry but those were his enemies and they were at war, when he finally defeated him he again chose death instead of finishing his father.
    Now 30 years later he stalks his nephew and student in his sleep, ignites his lightsaber and contemplates murdering him in his sleep, only because of what he might do in the future, let's remember the atrocities his father had done and he still didn't give up hope that he could be redeemed.
     
  18. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    From IGN...

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI DIRECTOR ON LUKE SKYWALKER'S GREATEST TEMPTATION TO THE DARK SIDE
    Spoilers! Rian Johnson on his film's most controversial scenes.
    BY JIM VEJVODA SPOILERS are discussed ahead for Star Wars: The Last Jedi!

    In a rare flashback for the franchise, Star Wars: The Last Jedi depicts a moment from the past where Luke Skywalker is tempted to kill his nephew Ben Solo after sensing how much of a hold the Dark Side has on him.

    The scenes have proven among the most controversial in a movie some Star Wars fans truly hate despite its overwhelmingly positive reviews and strong audience exit polling.

    Some fans who are bothered by these scenes claim Luke's temptation is out of character for the hero of the saga. But as The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson told IGN during a recent one-on-one interview, the point of these scenes is to show the lure of the Dark Side of the Force remains a threat even for such a noble Jedi master as Luke Skywalker.

    When asked if that moment is the closest Luke has ever come to the Dark Side, Johnson responded, "Absolutely. That was the embodiment of The Dark Side, is the quick and easy path, right?"

    "It’s that glimpse of… and Luke has never been… it’s not like Luke is a Superman who’s impervious to that. Having just, even the brief moment of temptation of it," Johnson said, "because that’s what that moment is. He doesn’t give in to the Dark Side, it’s a moment of temptation to the Dark Side."

    Johnson continued, "It reminds me very much of when Vader is tempting Luke, when Luke is underneath the stairs in [Return of the] Jedi, lit with that very beautiful half-and-half, the duality of these two sides of him being pulled. And that’s really what that moment is for me, it’s a moment of temptation to the Dark Side for Luke."

    It can be argued Ben Solo might not have become Kylo Ren had he not witnessed his own uncle/mentor considering murdering him in his sleep. But if this moment of weakness on Luke's part is what propelled Ben's downfall then doesn't that suggest this damage could be undone? Rey may have seen potential for Kylo's redemption but Johnson believes that, for Luke at least, that proverbial ship has sailed: "He says, 'I can’t save him.' 'I can’t save him.' I don’t think Luke can save him."

    But when pressed whether he himself thinks Kylo Ren is potentially redeemable, Johnson shrugged and laughed, "Yeah." After all, the last Skywalker who fell to the Dark Side was saved in the end.

    "Are you kidding? Vader was worse than Kylo ever was, I think, and Vader got redeemed," Johnson said. "Also, I should just for the record [say] that I’m not involved in the writing of the next movie. I’m an audience member in it, just like you, so when I talk about what’s going to happen next it’s in the context of, as a fan, what I’m thinking of."

    We'll have to wait until Star Wars: Episode IX opens in December 2019 to see whether Kylo Ren finds redemption. For more on Star Wars: The Last Jedi, check out our pieces on its epic lightsaber battle, our biggest WTF questions about the film, what's up with the Knights of Ren, our breakdown of the many ways hyperspace has been used in Star Wars, and our theories on what will happen in Episode IX.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2017 ---
    I'm totally with you. But here's the difference. Luke FELT conflict in Vader. He states he only saw pain and suffering, no conflict in Ben. Even still the weak moment passed. A lesser Jedi Master might have succumb to the temptation and been haunted by the deed. Luke is haunted by just thinking it. Why? Because he is so compassionate. But now, he's so down on himself for failing and getting his students killed, that he's decided its best for him to stay away.
     
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  19. Aglarion

    Aglarion Rebel Official

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    Thanks for sharing that interview, it was interesting but to be honest it makes the scene seem even worse to me.
    Let me try to resume what I feel in the following lines:
    I'm pretty sure If I had a father like Vader I would probably never go the length Luke went just to attempt to save him. However, I'm 100% sure that I would never contemplate murdering a boy in his sleep for what he could do in the future.
    That scene implies Luke has some kind of god complex and he thinks his visions are infallible and that the future is set in stone and there is no free will.
     
  20. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Clone

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    Hes just a m*ron trying to play god now that he had all the power to do whatever he wanted.
     
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