Why Rian wrote Luke's character the way he did...

I always felt Luke was a flawed Jedi, who started his training older than most and it was rushed. I think there was also a purpose and need in training Luke in the OT that probably didn't exist when the Jedi order was around.

The Emperor needed to be stopped, so they needed to quickly forge a sword. It didn't have to be graceful or beautiful, it just needed to work and that was all the time they (Yoda and Obi-Wan) had.

Fast forward to this Luke, and he was Master who lived with doubt and regret. He didn't have the examples say an Obi-Wan did growing up in what a Jedi Master should be. All he had was a glimpse into Yoda's and Obi-Wan's world, with the latter being fleeting. So he skrewed up with Kylo, lost his pupil to the dark side and he must have wondered how much of that was his fault because he had little experience and knowledge to draw on?

I didn't mind Luke, most of what he did was expected. That said, the only thing I didn't like was him tossing the lightsaber. Seeing him in battle could have been cool too, even if he died in the doing. Imagine Luke, Rey and Kylo fighting Snokes guards and Kylo killing both Luke and Snoke. afterward. That would have propped up the villain for episode 9.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2017 ---

I think Luke igniting his lightsaber is kind of like the police in ET pulling a gun. It was taken too far.

 

It's great to know that Luke Skywalker had his legacy trampled over so that a protagonist whose hero's journey is about as interesting as watching paint dry could come and do the thing he should have ended up doing. That's great. That's just fantastic.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2017 ---

The problem is that there is never a display on what was so flawed about his new order in the first place. What made his training ineffective and ultimately counterproductive? That's pretty vital to the story especially since the entire point of the original six-film saga was that it was his background and philosophical disagreement with his masters that ultimately separated him from the cripplingly bureaucratic and legalistic Jedi of the Republic, planting the seeds for a better Jedi Order to rise from the ashes of the new. Now, we're supposed to believe that Rey, with her paper-thin character journey and comparatively breezy progression in strength, is supposed to do this? Laughable.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017 ---

@CnlSandersdeKFC How about you actually address the points instead of just slapping any post that aligns with a different opinion other than your own with a trolling rating?

 

Because every single reply I see from you legit seems like trolling, and always starts with the same conspiratorial rant about Luke being trampled over, or destroyed, or obliterated, and how Disney is in a vast conspiracy to ruin your geek messiah. It got old quick dude. We get it. You don't need to restate your grievance in the most absurd manor in every one of your post.

 

How is it conspiratorial? That's a pretty egregious exaggeration on your part.

 

Because you make it seem like Rian Johnson wrote this story as a personal assault on you, and your values, and Kathy K endorsed it for similar reasons. That's the definition of conspiracy.

 

wut

What the hell are you on about? I was talking about Rian's creative choices being detrimental to the saga (which is solely a narrative, not a corporate discussion) and I never mentioned Kathleen. So you're just talking out of your ass here.

 

No, I wanted a natural progression of ROTJ Luke that wasn't him forgetting everything he learned during the OT just so that a new trilogy with substantially less interesting characters could justify its existence. I've already expanded upon this. I've even stated that I don't mind that they took this direction with Luke. It's just that it's incredibly underdeveloped and what little there is practically undermines the thematic progression of the whole saga, revealing how redundant the sequel trilogy is and ultimately lessening its impact.

When have I ever stated that I wanted Luke to do all the fighting or be the protagonist of this trilogy? Again, you're just pulling claims out of your the cavernous depths of your ass without backing them up at all.

This is a legitimately stupid comparison on your part.

 

I'm with you in part because "undoing" the preceding story to a certain extend is just inherent to the sheer existence of a new trilogy ( in whatever form).
I don't agree that it is underdeveloped or that it undermines the thematic progression (I'm not actually convinced that that progression actually exists).
We'll have to wait and see to debate redundancy - so far it's the first time we have ever been engaged in certain questions ( the validity of Jedi philosophy for example).
If IX doesn't follow through on those questions I will agree with you.

 

In my case at least, and to be honest I haven't seen anyone else complain about that, that's not what bothers me about Luke, it's exactly the opposite.
Luke had already demonstrated that he transcended the dogmas of the old jedi order, he always went against Yoda's and Obi-Wan's advice and he was always proven right. He was told he should sacrifice his friends in order to complete his training for the greater good and he decided to put himself at risk to save the ones he loved, and he was successful. He was told his father was too long gone, that once you fall to the dark side forever it will dominate your destiny, he knew better and again put himself at risk in order to try and save his father, and he was right again. What bothers me is that Luke went completely backwards in the lessons he had previously learned.

 

I love that message but we don't get to see Luke fail in that particular way you are describing. His failure was contemplating the murder of Ben, if Ben had fallen due to Luke's failure as a teacher that would have been perfectly acceptable, the issue is Luke attempts to do the exact opposite of how he behaved before (forgiving and saving someone despite all the atrocities he had done => trying to murder someone just in case of what he could do).

 

A Luke who cut himself off from the force and stopped caring about anything, including the safety of his sister and "best friend"

A Luke who considered killing Leia and Han's child, for showing some signs of dark side temptation (like Luke himself)

 

Why is this so widely accepted as a normal behavior? Nobody is asking for perfect Luke, or a Luke that hasn't changed, but not changing for the worse and doing a complete 180 on his previous behavior.
It is not normal at all to contemplate murdering your nephew in his sleep, only a complete psychopath would do something like that.

 

Except when you have magical future visions of your nephew literally being space-hitler and you are commander in chief of the galaxy's anti-hitlerian response team (which barely survived the last team of space hitlers and you just about started to nurture into existence back from the brink of annihilation) .

 

But do you understand the contradiction I'm talking about?, his father already was space hitler and he found another way, his nephew just had a lot of darkness inside him and he contemplated murdering him just in case of what he could become.
And this kill baby hitler scenario that people keep repeating is a complete fallacy. The only way one could justify something like that(and I still don't) is if you had complete certainty of the future, something that contradicts how force precognition has been exposed in the movies so far. "Always in motion the future is"

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2017 ---

Yes, but you keep ignoring the difference in the scenarios, Vader at that point was his enemy in a war, Kylo was his family and student and he had done no wrong at that point.