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Why Would Palp Kill Plagueis BEFORE Learning The Secret?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by SegNerd, May 24, 2017.

  1. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    Ever since I saw ROTS, I've always thought it was sort of odd that, if Darth Plagueis knew the secret to defying death, Palpatine would just kill him BEFORE learning how to do it. I know Palpatine is famously overconfident, but this borders on downright foolish. The only possible explanations I can think of are:

    -Plagueis was deliberately holding back the info as insurance against Palpatine killing him, so Palpatine just killed him anyway
    -Maybe the ability takes a ton of training and Palpatine had already finished most of it and thought he could figure out the rest (but apparently couldn't)
    -Maybe the ability never existed and Palpatine just made it up to manipulate Anakin (I know that's unlikely but I'm just saying it's a possible explanation)

    Has there ever been any explanation about this?
     
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    There was never any secret to overcome death. Sith are selfish so they pretend things to gain power. Palpating foind out and killed his master only to do the same thing.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Your last theory probably has the most validity
     
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  4. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Because Plagueis never learned it and Palpatine assumed/figured out that he never would.
     
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  5. singlern05

    singlern05 Rebel Official

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    I think Palpatine did learn this trick but not in the way that I think you are suggesting. What he said in ROTS was that Plagueis could keep others from dying but not himself. He never said that Plagueis learned the secret to immortality. He also went on to say that Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knows, so one can assume it included this trick.

    This plays into the later part of the film where Anakin is found still alive despite being roasted like a marshmallow. The only reason he is still alive is because of Palpatine. I also think Vader could not have survived from that point on, even with his suit, if not for Palpatine. That is why at the end of ROTJ he tells Luke that "nothing can stop [him from dying] now," with the implication being now that Palpatine is dead. This is also what makes Vader's decision to kill Palpatine a self-sacrifice to save his son. The self-sacrifice part of it is the only thing that truly redeemed him IMO.
     
    #5 singlern05, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
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  6. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    I don't think there is any question that Palpatine killed Plagueis without learning the ability (that may or may not exist):

    "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret."

    There are some debates over whether they ever attained the power, but as far as I can tell the only real evidence that they did comes from EU/decanonized material. Considering they both died, I personally don't think they ever achieved it.

    Although Anakin does become a Force Ghost, at least in my interpretation there is a major difference between the Sith concept of "cheat death and defy it" versus the Jedi concept of "accept death and transcend it."
     
    #6 SegNerd, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
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  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I don't remember where I read it (maybe it was in Tarkin) but I remember Palpatine musing on how Plagueis wanted power over life and death, while Palpatine was far more concerned with Influence. I don't know if Palpatine was even all that concerned with Plagueis's powers, to be honest.
     
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  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    That is a very interesting point, but nonetheless it's hard to imagine someone not being interested in a power like that.
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Different people have different goals.

    You can become immortal in name.
    Great (and not so great) men and women throughout history are essentially immortal.
    We all know who Cleopatra is.
    She died some 2000+ years ago.

    If what @cawatrooper says is true (and I'm inclined to believe it) then Palpatine might have been more interested in that than physical immortality
     
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  10. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Or . . . it is possible that Palpatine was lying to Anakin.
     
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  11. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    Yes - that's what I meant with my third possible theory.
     
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  12. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    If I understand what you mean, Vader was alive from RotS to RotJ only by the grace of Palpatine (and not due to his equipment). If I'm correct, then that is a strong idea that I had not thought about, before you wrote it. Great point that ties the Palp assert "Plagueis could keep others from dying but not himself" and the inevitable death of Vader (and so, his suicide) once Palp is dead.

    All depends on the cost. Would you want to become immortal if the price to pay is to live your eternity deaf, mute, blind and screwed in a bed?

    Now the Dark Plagueis novel is not canon, this seems to be far the best answer...
     
    #12 daRinze, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  13. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Do you mean Anakin?
     
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  14. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    No no, I actually mean Vader, from the very moment Palpatine leans over him on Mustafar, to the moment Vader throws Palpatine in the DS2 well.
     
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  15. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Early ROTS drafts had Palpatine mention that he killed Plagueis because he believed living forever was not the true way of the Sith. There has been no outright confirmation that Sheev wants to, or doesn't want to live forever yet.

    There is also the possibility of how difficult the ability is. For example, knowing a recipe doesn't necessarily mean you have the aptitude to create it to the same standard as professional chefs. Perhaps Palpatine knew the ingredients but not the amounts?
     
    #15 GingerByte, May 26, 2017
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  16. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Theory: Palpy learnt the secret, killed his boss, then pretended not to know the secret to keep the secret only for himself, because Sith are kinda selfish like that....
    ;)
     
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  17. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    keep in mind that, considering Senator Palpatine is around 55 in TPM (IRL: actor Ian McDiarmid was 55 y-o by the time TPM was filmed), that means The Emperor is about 91 by the end of RotJ (TPM is 32 BBY and RotJ is 4 ABY, that means 36 years between). That man is rather well preserved :)
     
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  18. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I guess it was part of his master plan.
     
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Plague is was never going to REALLY tell anyone his secrets. He's a sith so he's very selfish by keeping the ultimate power to himself. Palpating, being so arrogant, assumed he had been taught everything so he killed his master to prevent him from ever revealing anything to anyone else. And since only Jedi can really unlock the true secret to immortality then maybe plageuis plageuis was never really a real sith
     
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  20. wenbilson

    wenbilson Clone Commander

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    I always just thought old Palpy didn't have a clue whether stopping death was a thing. People are dispensable to him and manipulation was second nature to him also. So he manipulated a weak, dumb, silly, floppy haired, scruffy lookin, nerf herding Anakin (very easily) with the oldest trick in the book - Tell a person you can stop people dying so they'll help you destabilise an entire galactic senate to instate a dictatorship and achieve unlimited power - that old trick.
     
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