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Will 9 subvert expectations?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by ScumAndVillainy, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    They made a big deal over this in 8, along with pitching the old to make way for the new.

    Yet, if that is their intention, then ending this like RoTJ would represent a complete failure of that philosophy. And if this is the end of the Saga(which given KK herself has said there is planning going on for 10-12, its pretty much not), then how do they subvert expectations?

    Do I really even want to believe at this point that they'll actually throw the baby out with the bathwater, go sailing into the night, any number of euphemisms, and end the entire trilogy like TESB? Because that is what it would take. That's the Nuclear Option. If going this way.. what you would need:

    * A Family Reveal. Ren was lying. Or Ren and Rey didn't have the whole truth and that's why her 'parents' were so quick to sell her for drinking money. Rey is a Skywalker. Going back on this would be all sorts of magic not to really cheese off the handful of fans that thought Random was a good idea, and the others that continue to have their necks assaulted by whiplash.
    * A Cliffhanger to end the trilogy. Rey & Friends go on the run. Ren wins out. Rey hurt badly during the final confrontation (Luke lost an arm). Wouldn't be much different from TESB, only the trilogy would end on it, to be resolved in 10-12.

    In short, no... I don't believe this will happen. But its whats left if they don't go ROTJ-ending(with or without Reylo becoming one with the Force and Rey 'saving' what she 'loves' :rolleyes:).

    You either play it down the middle with a fastball, or throw the curve that has a good chance of missing the strike zone. It'll at least be interesting to see what they do.
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    That's a good question. I think it depends on those expectations.

    For instance, people expected that, of course, the Death Star plans would be taken in Rogue One. They did not expect the Hallway scene with Vader, and while that may have been a subversion of expectations it also ironically ended up being one of the most indulgent scenes of the film for fans.

    TLJ obviously subverted expectations a lot, and in some ways it worked to its favor. I, for one, would have never expected Yoda to show up (even if we got a Force Ghost, I'd have thought it'd be Obi Wan instead).

    I don't know how closely EpIX will straddle the line between fan service and subversion, but I expect that while Rey still probably doesn't come from a legacy bloodline, the "your parents were drunks who sold you for drinking money" line was probably a lie to plunge Rey further into darkness.
     
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  3. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Well Mr Johnsn sure did paint Mr JJ into a nice big old corner.

    Option 1. Ren dies redeemed and becomes Ben again. 2 much like ROTJ.

    Option 2. Ren dies evil.

    Option 3. Open ending. First Order wins Rey & friends go in2 hiding.

    Option 4. Open ending. About 10 people in the Falcon along with Super Rey defeat the FO. Ren goes in hiding.

    Option 5. Somewhat open ending. Ren becomes Ben but goes to exile.

    Since JJ haves ZERO originality i think we'll c option 1.
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I think it's a bit ironic to come up with 5 options, limit all possibilities to those options, then say someone else lacks originality, but maybe that's just me.
     
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  5. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Did i say those where the 5 only options?

    Option 6: Reylo babies. Happy now?
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Isn't that kind of the implication of listing options like that?

    No matter.

    To be honest, one of the silver linings from the decisions RJ made in TLJ in my opinion is that JJ has a pretty blank slate to go off of now. Even if you didn't like where TLJ went, we're at least not beholden to much of the decisions RJ made. Really, it's almost impossible to tell what is going to happen in EpIX, and that if anything will make it relatively easy to subvert expectations, particularly when compared to how TLJ bent over backward to try to contort away from fan theories after the set ups in TFA.
     
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  7. BaserCreatures

    BaserCreatures Rebelscum

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    I think there are real positives and negatives with the position that JJ has been put in with regards to story. I won't go into all the details in an effort to stay on topic, but I think the expectations on him and the movie are one of the pros. When it comes to perception, JJ has been given a gift. The expectations the vast majority have is JJ making a movie that can please that majority.

    Rian didn't leave us a lot to speculate about. Post TFA we scrutinized over Rey's parentage, why Luke went away, who Snoke was/what was his purpose...for better or worse, Rian answered those questions and didn't really give us any cliffhanger style items to wildly hypothesize on.

    It is harder to be mad about our specific expectations when we don't have any.

    Just look at so many of threads that are new and active on here. They are still rehashes. "What if Rey's parents are really this and not what we were told" or "Well, what if Snoke isn't dead and is really this thing..."

    We don't really have much to go on yet to even begin creating theories and expectations. That will bode in JJ and IX's favor in the long run, I think.
     
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  8. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    or long time fans are gone since they have nothing left to stay invested.
     
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  9. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

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    No, because I have no expectations after TLJ. I'm not even expecting a good movie or one that I'm excited about at this point.:D

    And then there's this, the one thing that guarantees that I will never spend a penny on Ep. 9.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I think that's a pretty valid observation. The speculation game has changed from "What's in the mystery box" to "Are we being lied to about what we were told was in the mystery box?".

    Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but this quote from The Prestige comes to mind when I consider what the organization of this trilogy might be emulating:

    If the Sequel Trilogy truly is emulating a magic trick, then I think it's not at all unreasonable to think that the second episode "("The Turn") could have been a giant misdirection. If anything, I think it just depends on what was misdirected, and what was a red herring all along.

    Currently, the popular theory is that JJ set a lot of stuff up, and all of that was the misdirection. Snoke, Rey's parentage, Luke... all of that was, in many people's minds, a giant red herring, and the true story is something else entirely.

    And I don't know, maybe those people are right. But I think they fail to consider one extremely important detail- the trick still isn't over, and we have yet to see the "Prestige".
     
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  11. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    This actually makes a lot of sense. It would somehow make the trilogy go full circle.
     
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  12. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    So you're saying Luke is still alive? Because I think everybody got the Force Ghost Memo as the way of bringing Luke back. Not only do we know that trick, but it doesn't fool us in the least.

    So you're saying Rey is really a Skywalker? Normal girl, possible parentage connections with all that newfound Force Ability(TFA), parentage is random(TLJ), Rabbit out of the hat... She's a *SKYWALKER*! PRESTIGE!

    So you're saying Snoke lives? Normal bad guy, same as any other, stay tuned for backstory!(TFA), backstory vanishes like a lightsaber strike to the side(TLJ), Snoke is ALIVE! PRESTIGE!

    In case you missed it, i'm really not sure what you think is going to be revealed as the Prestige? What was introduced in 7, that went away in 8, that comes back in 9 that will both be satisfying, have fooled us, and advance the story to a reasonable conclusion? Because atm, i'm not seeing it.

    Unless you mean Leia, and short of JJ finding a way to bring Carrie Fisher back to life (as opposed to CGI), not interested :/.
     
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  13. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    the Knights of Ren? we know absolutely zero about them.
    who knows what they might bring?
     
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  14. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    If Rey isn't a nobody, I don't think I would care for it. Not now.
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    My only point is this: everyone treated TFA as this big mystery box, which is no surprise really.

    With TLJ, we took everything at face value.

    I'm not saying that's wrong and that things weren't portrayed accurately, but that even if it's correct, doesn't it seem a bit naive? After all, the trick (trilogy) is hardly done yet.
     
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  16. BaserCreatures

    BaserCreatures Rebelscum

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    Maybe some are. But I'm still here for the ride and I know a lot of other people are still in it for the long haul.

    Most of my friends who had real issues with TLJ are hopeful about IX, they haven't jumped ship yet.

    But, I don't fault fans for deciding to take a break from Star Wars if they want to, or feel like they have to. With as much Star Wars as we are getting right now it would be really easy to get over-saturated. I sort of relate it to The Simpsons. It's been on TV for 3 decades. At times I have watched it every Sunday night, reruns on weeknights, and then there are times when I will go years without watching anything except maybe the treehouse of horror episode. I think that is our right and privilege as fans. Especially now. We can come and go as we please and pick and choose what Star Wars we want to see of what is being offered.

    And while I don't agree, I completely understand feeling like characters and stories you invested in went somewhere that was wrong.
     
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  17. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    If Rey is confirmed nobody Elvis will leave the room.
     
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  18. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

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    I completely agree with you. While I'm not jumping on any theory bandwagon or clinging to any ideas, there's still one more movie to go in this trilogy. What if the "answers" given in TLJ weren't the complete answers? I'm not going to make a grand prediction on anything regarding Rey, Snoke or Luke, etc., but I do think it might be wise to keep an open mind and think that anything could still happen. If we've gotten all the answers in TLJ, what story is there left to tell?
     
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  19. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    I'm sure there will be a few diehards left.

    I'll likely watch both Solo and 9 once to finish out the cycle. And i'll give GoT guys first movie a shot if it looks interesting, I don't really have anything against them. I'll point and giggle and not watch a thing RJ makes, Star Wars or not.

    But if 9 is what we expect... beyond that, probably not. I'm not up for the Episodic Saga Trilogy Machine where Disney tries to monetize this until the end of time, and that seems to be the only clear direction the ST has had.
     
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    On that, I definitely agree with you. I mean, I'll probably watch whatever comes out, but especially with Daisy Ridley saying she's not likely to return after IX (though I think she since took back that statement) I don't want to have a trilogy with an entirely new cast every few years. I wouldn't hate to see Ridley, Isaac, Boyega, and co return in 10 years or so with a new trilogy continuing the Star Wars story, but I hope they don't try to milk this timeline too much. At this point, I'm much more interested in B&W, RJ, and the spinoff projects.
     
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