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Will The Rise of Skywalker be ROTJ 2.0?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by techsteveo, Jun 10, 2019.

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Will The Rise of Skywalker feel like a rehash of Return of the Jedi?

  1. It is unavoidable. It is it's destiny

    5.7%
  2. Mesa no think so

    94.3%
  1. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think there is 2 ways to look at the SW movies: A big picture narrative or a character driven narrative. I have tried for years to look at them as a big picture narrative, but they never seem to mesh for me in that respect. But if I watch them as a character driven narrative, than it does offer a difference in the OT and ST. As I stated before, the ST is just a greatest hits of OT plot points sprinkled throughout and shaken and stirred. But the characters are different in each Trilogy and that is where the ST has the advantage over the PT for me. While I absolutely love the OT cast and was the reason I fell in love with the movies back in 1977, the PT characters never resonated with me for whatever reasons.

    Suprisingly, the ST characters really resonated with me as I think that will eventually be JJ's biggest accomplishment in the ST. So Rey/Kylo dynamic is much different than Vader/Luke. So the motivation for Vader/Luke in the OT was more about family, Rey/Kylo (as of now aren't related) could possibly bond together to fight against Palpatine for different reasons. The one thing I keep going back to which has been hinted in TFA and expounded in TLJ is that Rey/Kylo represent the Light/Dark of the Force, and somehow they balance each other. I'm hoping JJ plays on that story/theme in TROS as maybe they can truly bring balance to the Force?

    So I see your point that TROS might be shaping up to be another ROTJ from a macro point of view. But the character arcs are much different than the OT, and that for me is what keeps me interested in SW. We still don't know what will be of Luke in TROS, so that is something different from ROTJ. The thing about ROTJ is never see what happens after that celebration on Endor, maybe JJ ends in a montage of where Poe, Finn, Rose, and Rey are at following the events of TROS?
     
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  2. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Wow, I’m literally on the opposite end of everything you stated. I want a satisfying ending to this adventure for Rey and Finn, but hope we get more original adventure for them in the future.
     
    #22 techsteveo, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  3. YetAnotherSuperweapon

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    Your hunch is exactly what I'm worried about, but we'll see. If you had told me TLJ's plot in advance I probably would have hated it, but it worked brilliantly for me in the actual film.

    I agree, it should be fun coming back here after seeing TROS to discuss what worked and what didn't. Who knows, come December, maybe I'll be here praising the finale's incredible Palpatine battle.
     
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  4. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

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    It's interesting to see how different opinions can be regarding this "story too similiar" and "too many parallels" issue. I guess it depends on where we're coming from.

    As I said, it bothers me to see a SW movie having too many parallels, and obvious ones, to previous SW movies. TFA being the case for ANH, and now potentially TROS regarding ROTJ. Why? Because the events of those movies mattered to me deeply, they were part of me growing up. I know the OT movies by heart, so when I spot too many parallels in TFA to ANH it bothers me because I really, really wanted to see new stories and be surprised and not just re-watch the same tropes with different skins.

    So, it's a matter of wanting and expecting more from a SW movie, or at least wish for something different in terms of story (not the world, the world is fine), especially when you take everything you already saw into consideration. Yes, TFA is excellent in many aspects, but to me it fell short because it had too many obvious parallels to ANH. The PT feels very different from the OT, and that is both good and bad. However, storywise there's not a problem per se, I guess most of the PT problems may have been more ones of execution. In TFA execution was great, but the story was too similar in many aspects for my taste.

    So, there's really no right or wrong answers here. I just expect and value certain things, and you and others expect others. I would have preferred TFA to be more fresh story-wise (it had another death star, the desert slave, the droid found in the desert, The Empire 2.0, the final X-Wing trench run, etc). If TROS ends up having as many parallels to ROTJ as TFA had for ANH I will be disappointed. Not because it will be a bad movie, I'm sure it won't. I just expected more.
     
    #24 greenbalrog, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  5. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    You make great points. I have always said that if you ask 20 SW fans what type of SW movie they want, you will get 20 different answers. I honestly don't know what type of movie that Lucas (back in the day) or Disney could put out now to appeal to all of the fans. If they try something too different, then fans say it's not SW enough. If they try something too close to the OT, then fans say it is isn't original. If they make a movie like R1, some fans will like that there are new characters, and some fans feel unattached because the characters aren't from the OT. If they make a movie like Solo, then fans feel it's a tic tac toe of his greatest hits. It is amazing that there is this vast universe that Lucas created, and it gets stuck in a box when it comes to the movies. I think the novels are always great of various material, but I don't know if the movies are good for that same medium. As I mentioned before, the PT looks like a cool story on paper, but it just fell flat for a variety of reasons. The ST went back to the basics of SW and now many fans (justifiably) feel it's TOO much like the OT.

    I honestly don't know where that happy medium is with a SW film anymore.
     
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  6. Rodney-2187

    Rodney-2187 Jedi General

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    "You must unlearn what you have learned."

    Stop deciding what the exact perfect option would be in advance. Stop expecting perfection. George Lucas wasn't happy with everything about Star Wars and he's the one who made it, so what chance do you have if you go into it already having made up your mind how it should be?

    Just sit back in your seat, soak in all the wonderful hype around the wonderful event that is a new Star Wars movie, and just allow yourself to be entertained for a few hours. Besides, if everything went exactly how I expect, that'd be really boring.
     
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  7. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    I don't think is one to be honest. If they do indeed a confirm B&W doing a KOTOR era film, then that might unite the community but then again, you'll have another sub division of fans who won't be happy because of what they did with Season 8 of GOT, despite praising them only couple years earlier.
     
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  8. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    The D&D guys are already under a microscope after those last 2 seasons of GOT from a lot of fans. People have already drawn sides and we don't even know what the movies are about, so the fandom will be ready for another civil war in 2022! lol
     
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  9. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Not sure why an original and different ending would be asking too much. Not expecting perfection, no franchise or film ever will be (although ESB is close). However originality should be expected. The ending of ROTJ should be respected and not copied. Maybe we great a great ending that doesn’t feel derivative. I’m hoping that’s the case. However the leaks and the person making the film lead me to believe it will be a greatest hits with a familiar ending. I’m a JJ fan but feel he hasn’t fully let loose from a creative stand point.
     
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  10. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel General

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    We are being tricked. Palpatine will be in the movie yes, but I highly doubt it will be in physical form. Something that Palpatine had will be the macguffin of this new film. We are likely to see a Palpatine spirit or holocron. But I am almost willing to put money on the line the the old guy will NOT be literally brought back to life.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 13, 2019 ---
    This! I remember when I first watched TFA, and nearly a half hour into the film I wasn't disappointed or even thinking about the fact that we hadn't seen any of the original cast yet. Props to JJ and Kasdan for amazing new characters and their introductions.
     
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  11. Palpatine was Framed

    Palpatine was Framed Rebel Official

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    Well said!

    If you go in laser focused on any similarities to any of the other movies, you'll find it. It's bound to have a lot of the 'third in a trilogy' story beats, but what matters is how it's executed. JJ was very mindful of the similarities to A New Hope, and I agree that his comments from Vanity Fair suggest that he's gonna do something different, or as different as he can. The Force Awakens was well directed, and I think we're going to get something special come December.
     
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  12. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

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    I agree. Even Ian Mcdiarmid himself said something along those lines, and he seemed serious about it. Not having Palpatine alive, like really alive in the physical form, would be preferable, in my view, so not to hurt the ROTJ experience.

    Yes, JJ's comments about acknowledging the criticism on TFA being similar to ANH (or at least that's how I interpreted his comments), and his intention to make something more different in TROS gives me hope we'll see something that feels more unique and is very special in December.
     
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  13. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Maybe we just have to acknowledge... that GL is a genius.
    That is not to say that he is the best director ever... but that he created a story, that different people may actually like for different reasons.
    Form this point of view, is not that fan are too different, but that he was too good
     
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  14. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I respect your takes on parallels in the saga but I don’t share them. It is not about naming all those things that are similar in the OT and the ST and concluding: “I don’t like this because it is not new enough”. These ST stories had to be similar to the OT and JJ knew it. They needed to follow the hero’s journey, to tell an epic story about discovering the force, about the legacy of Darth Vader and Luke. They needed to be an introduction to the universe for audience who had never been exposed to the OT or the PT while still hit the right notes for the existent SW fans. It was about recruiting a new audience, wining over the old one and making SW relevant in the world of today. And JJ decided to do all this through well realised characters driving the story forward. R1 and Solo operated outside this framework and I would argue this is the main reason why those films are not as interesting and feel less relevant... The ST needed to encapsulate SW for a variety of audiences. What you find repetitive it is precisely what anchors the ST in the SW world that I remember and cherish. Take away one of those parallelisms I mentioned above, you risk alienating me and others like me with a story about ships and aliens I cannot relate to. As Lucas very rightly said once, SW is not about space ships and all those externalities. It is about fathers and sons. It is the type of storytelling and the themes what makes SW what it is. What makes ST more successful than R1 and Solo for the majority is that the ST, unlike, R1 and Solo, has all the elements that once made the OT successful, as simple as.

    I’m aware that a lot of people like SW for other reasons than me. My point writing this is offering a possible explanation why the ST is the way it is and could not have been more “original”.
     
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  15. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Well if it starts out with Jabba the Hutt's palace and Han frozen in Carbonite...oh wait
     
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  16. Rodney-2187

    Rodney-2187 Jedi General

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    E chu ta!
     
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  17. YetAnotherSuperweapon

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    Jabba's son Rotta was flying by Starkiller Base after it had exploded and happened to find Han's remains in the wreckage. Rotta has recently set up his new crime headquarters on Pasaana where he proudly displays the corpse....
     
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  18. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Did Rotta bring some super glue and put all of Han back together? Maybe he used duct tape? No...wait the carbon freeze put him together. Way to go Rotta.
     
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  19. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    How rude! (c-3po)
     
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  20. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think the toughest thing that SW goes through that most bigtime franchises don't go through is that it has to introduce new characters for each Trilogy. Think about Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, Rocky, they all focus on the same main character, and have an assortment of secondary characters. The OT was the biggest thing in the world from 77-83, as Luke, Leia and Han are iconic. Because there was never a true part 4 of the OT (meaning Luke, Leia and Han still being young), the Franchise told more stories 20+ years before, and 20+ years after. So the PT and ST were NEVER going to feel exactly like the OT simply because there was no young Han, Luke and Leia. That is why there is always a discourse with fans after 1983, because there is always going to be something completely new (Anakin, Padme and Obiwan, Palpatine), and than (Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo), while treading water in stuff that is familiar.

    I struggle with it sometimes as wish Lucas made the ST in the late 80's/early 90's with a young Hamill, Ford, and Fisher as I would have killed for 3 more movies of my beloved heroes. But we got a much older version of our heroes in the ST (for better or worse), and you either have to jump on for the ride or wave goodbye and move on. I wouldn't begrudge anyone for saying they decided to move on once they realized the ST was going to focus on the new characters, while the older characters passed the torch.

    This goes to my point in answering the OP, in that we probably would have never gotten a ANH 2.0 if the ST focused on Han, Luke and Leia in their 30's and 40's (If Lucas made it in the 90's). But once they decided that the ST was about the new characters, then they could keep those same beats in term of the plot. But it would be different character arcs from the OT that would seperate it.

    I hope that makes sense!
     
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