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SPECULATION Will there be anything new in The Last Jedi?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Linnus

    Linnus Rebel General

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    Eh seeing the same ships and the like doesnt bother me.
    Although we better not have Death Star IV in IX.

    But copying the same plot beats again would be annoying.

    However, to answer the question I seriously doubt RJ can deviate too far.

    You dont break from a winning formula if you have to. You ride that Formula to the finish line. Look at Fast and Furious it went from Point Break with Cars to what is now because of necessity and it aint changing from the current path.
    Or Transformers widely derided at least in the USA but Michael Bay will stay the course because the money if flowing.

    Doing something new went poorly for PT and TFA copied ANH and made a crap load of money. No Exec is risking that.
    Star Wars isnt Oscar Bait...its job is to make money and to sell merc....creativity doesnt enter the formula unless the audience demands it.
    And right now TFA suggest that the audience wants a rehash.
     
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  2. Protocol Droid

    Protocol Droid Rebel General

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    We know next to nothing about the plot at this point, but to speak to your concern about the imagery, I have no doubt that the image of those b-wing speeders heading over white sand toward the walkers is a deliberate evocation of the Hoth attack that opened ESB, but that does not mean that this scene will play out the same way or serve the same story function. And that’s really what matters here – THE STORY.

    For example, like many others I was really bothered by Lucas’ cloying “rhyming” and smallworldness in the PT (Annakin was born on Tatooine too? Oh he built C3PO? Oh is he going to lose an arm in a lightsaber fight now? etc), but none of that would have mattered if the story in which this rhyming was put to use was compelling and compellingly executed. I’m not saying this to provoke people who view the quality of the PT as on par with the OT, but just to make the point that the story is what matters, and repurposing tropes often serves a useful meta-story function, in that it allows the storyteller to converse with and complicate themes introduced earlier in the saga. If done well this can enrich the audience experience, and if done poorly it will feel like a lazy retread.

    I understand you fear we may be in for the latter experience, but perhaps you can take heart in these words from RJ, in which he emphasizes the pleasures of surprise and twists and turns in the narrative:



    Lastly, to speak to the actual evidence we have so far for TLJ, i.e the teaser trailer: we have Luke Skywalker – the original hero who introduced us all to the Jedi mythos and made us care about it -- telling us that the Jedi order must come to an end. This is absolutely a different thematic and storytelling turn from anything we’ve seen before in SW.
     
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  3. dudebrohomie

    dudebrohomie Rebel Official

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    This film, I am certain, will in no way be a reboot of ESB or any other film. R. Johnson is too creative of a filmmaker to have that happen. Save this post and refer back to it once the film comes out. I PROMISE you, it will not be in any way an ESB rehash except that it will be more serious.
     
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  4. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    But PT still made loads of cash with all its new elements. As proven by them and Rogue One, people will go see Star Wars, regardless of how many new or old elements there are. They really can go in any direction with it and people would still see it.

    Besides, calling "Oscar Baits" original is a bit of an overstatement. The Academy is a bunch of white Jewish fogeys whose taste in films are well known and easily exploited. Here is a good video on that subject.

    The only area of cinema that is truly original is the independent scene and only in some of its parts.
     
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  5. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Need I remind you that, before The Last Jedi, Rian's only three major films (his film from '96, Evil Demon Golfball from Hell!!!) released to date (with him directing and writing) are all widely lauded as inventive, original independent films? And that this is the guy who directed arguably one of the greatest episodes of television to date, with Breaking Bad's Ozymandias? Up to this point, this guy has been the independent director.

    This guy is one hell of a director, and hearing someone as critically appraised and original as him - a director who's all about misdirects and twists and turns - say that we're getting twists and turns in this film, by his standards, most likely means we're seeing twists and turns. He's one of the greatest directors to have not yet got his hands on a big studio-backed, blockbuster tentpole film, and this is absolutely his chance to shine.

    Does mean that there won't be homages to past films? Of course not! The shots of those speeders flying towards massive walkers is an obvious nod to TESB, and there are some other nods I'm sure we'll get in the film too, but if we don't get something we can call "an original take on Star Wars", then in my mind there's one of two reasons, and both are equally outlandish: Lucasfilm handcuffed his creativity (why on earth would you hire such a creative director if you're going to handcuff him?) or he didn't know how to handle it, being his first massive potential blockbuster film and all (need I remind you all that Star Wars was Lucas' first massive blockbuster film, too, an that he was predominantly considered an indie director before Star Wars was released?).

    This film will make money regardless. Way I see it, if you want to play it safe and play to the beats of TESB (which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the story of that film, but alas) you get a world renowned director, such as JJ Abrams for TFA, to spearhead the project to give it as much credibility as possible. Under no circumstance would you hire one of the greatest indie directors of the first decade of this millennia to direct his first major blockbuster potential film.
     
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  6. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    So far I have seen and heard only new and exciting stuff. Everything was new in TFA, nothing was the same, but it requires an amount of thought to realize this. Not everyone likes to take that effort. They prefer the "quick and easy path".(yoda 2)
     
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  7. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    I'm positive Rian's TLJ will the best film of the New Trilogy and, at least in my opinion, has a substantial chance to become the new best SW film ever. ;)
     
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  8. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    I think its a pretty good bet TLJ is gonna be weird and different and then Colin T. will come in and give the fans something that feels traditional.
     
  9. Kennytime

    Kennytime Rebelscum

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    Yeah, I mean they are teasing the Jedi journals that Luke and Yoda read together in Empi- oh, wait, yeah that didn't happen.

    I'll echo others' points as well. I'm sure there will be some narrative threads that will be similar or overlap. But we've seen less than a minute of footage from a movie and people are throwing their popcorn at it. It's not justified at this point.
     
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  10. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Sounds like Anakin, actually, making it more interesting (anakin 3)
     
  11. Just Passing Through

    Just Passing Through Rebel General

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    Anakin is a terrible character to emulate. Unless you mean Rey falling to the dark side? If so then emulate away.
     
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  12. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    They whiny one or the fun one from Clone Wars?
     
  13. Just Passing Through

    Just Passing Through Rebel General

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    The whiny one from the PT films rather than the lesser known cartoon one. The one most people remember.
     
  14. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    The PT made a crap load of money as well. The fact it wasn't well received by the critics has nothing to do with doing something new.

    Look at it this way. The PT made a bunch of money from fans because its Star Wars and everyone sees it. But, it didn't have the repeat viewership that TFA had. Why did TFA have the repeat viewership? Because it was the first new Star Wars with our legacy characters returning AND because it was overall a fun, great entry into the Saga. The PT had new characters, some returning supporting characters, but the films overall were bloated, stagnant and slow. TPM out of all of the PT films, has the most Star Wars feel to it. But it gets bogged down by bland performances from some of the younger members of the cast and a story that gets pulled into politics and trade wars. This has nothing to do with rehashing anything. TFA deliberated made the choices it did because it wanted to take what we knew about ANH but turn it on its head a bit. It seems like a rehash but there are many, many subtle differences that make Rey much different than Luke, Han much different than Obi-Wan, and Kylo much different than Vader.

    TFA, ANH, and TPM were all the first films in their respective trilogies and all made the most money in their respective trilogies. That's not a surprise. The second films always make the least because usually they are darker and take more risks. Again its not a surprise. The third chapters will do better financially at the box office than the middle chapters but not as well as the first movies. No surprise.

    Star Wars can do all new and make a boat load of money. But it will continue to keep the audiences coming back IF the story is fun and engaging, the characters are relatable and/or familiar to the audience, and the script is witty and sharp. There will never be another TFA type of event in Star Wars. Ever. But, Star Wars doesn't need that much money to remain viable.
     
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  15. Smullie_1138

    Smullie_1138 Rebel Commander

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    Besides continuing the story and selling all the toys, The Force Awakens had one very difficult task:

    Make something the fans will love, all the while bringing back the fans whose "childhood was [insert your own description]" ánd turn the general audience over into the SW excitement. Seeing the movie made all the money, I'm guessing they pretty much succeeded.
    That they had to play it safe on some fronts is fairly justified.

    This also means the sequel - The Last Jedi I believe it's called - has all that weight on its shoulders, while simultanously has a lot of opportunity to introduce lots of new stuff. Considering the footage we got, all the reports about how's it's going to be different and the talent involved, I have the utmost trust in this film.
    Plus, there's a big difference in reusing something and paying homage to it, to make it fit better in the overall saga.

    Makes me think episode IX has some big shoes to fill. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me that that movie will downplay some of the surprises and twists, just to even things out across the trilogy.



    Something else:

    Has anyone translated the Aurabesh on Finn's stasis chamber yet?
     
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  16. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    I cannot say I agree with the poster on TFA. I used to hate it, but really I see it as more of a mixed bag/incomplete film. My thoughts could change with TLJ. As for TLJ, yeah; much as I am a fan of Rian Johnson, trying to replicate ESB I argue would be the single biggest mistake LucasFilm would make. Here's why?

    There's no denying ESB is a great SWs Film. Heck, it is has been regarded as one of the best sequels of all time. That's pretty good all things considering, like how the movie got such a mixed reception when it was initially released. Plus, that movie I argue was Lightning in a bottle. It was a masterfully crafted film that really showcased the chops of Irvin Kershner, Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett.

    Copying that movie would not only be the ultimate display of laziness, but also it is LucasFilm admitting that they cannot escape the past. Plus, it would only seek to embolden TFA and the ST's most hardline critics.Though, many of those people will find a reason to dislike the movie regardless. And finally, it would be LucasFilm and Rian Johnson not really getting why ESB was great.

    ESB wasn't great because it was just the second entry, but because it was an original work that did its own thing. it would have been so easy for GL or anyone to essentially give us a retread of ANH.

    Rian, LucasFilm, everyone on that film should take inspiration from Kershner and the team's ability to be willing to take risks and use the opportunity to truly add to the tapestry that is this incredible franchise.

    Now, do I honestly think Rian will indeed remake ESB? Absolutely not. He's not the kind of guy to do that stuff. Also, logically the wool of nostalgia isn't around everyone's eyes this time around. Especially, post Rogue One. The only thing from ESB I see Rian replicating is a few scene homages and the smaller, more intimate tone and more character driven based aspects.

    Because, if you look at Rian's work; a lot of it is not narrative based. Rather, it is character driven. SWs, I argue at its best has always been character driven and really ESB is the apex of that aspect. I mean some of the most iconic lines came from that movie. :)
     
  17. PlagueisLivesDuh

    PlagueisLivesDuh Rebel Commander

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    I think somewhere it was said it was "stable"... But fact check that.



    On topic: I don't see a point attacking those that see the very clear homages. Even some of those optimistic posters admit they are nods, yet some here deny any similarities. That's curious. It's obvious that people have differing opinions, no need calling them "whiners" or implying they have an inability to think.

    All we have is the trailer so that's all there is, for the most part, to discuss. Things we see that excite us and things we see that give others possible concern. I think after TFA and talk for YEARS now that "if ep7 was like ep4 does that mean that ep8 could be like ep5?" and a trailer with what I think are arguably clear nods to ep5 then that could concern some that Disney is at it again just like TFA... director be damned (let's not pretend he has total authority - we know he is bound to some constraints as Disney is a, no, THE business whether they have some of the best content available or not).

    I think it's a legitimate concern. Hopefully we are being brought through nostalgic tones but will have lots of new content. Hopefully. But the jury is still out and ep8 very well *could* be another rehash (yes, with 'new' names, obligatory aliens, planets etc.)

    On the opposite end of the spectrum of "whiners" are... apologists. No need for name calling either way.

    I also seem to recall some here exclaiming there is NO WAY ep7 would be a rehash lol. In this very thread there are some in denial it HEAVILY borrowed the broad strikes from ep4. While others acknowledge this and even applaud it because 'Disney just HAD to...(insert reasons here, generally involving getting a new gen on board or resetting the landscape with something familiar for old fans). Whatever. It worked. Monetarily. And that's the bottom line.

    If Disney outright KNOWS it can loosely redo the OT with just enough new material to be convincing that they aren't just find/replace-ing the original scripts with new names while literally making billions what makes one think they would stray too far and take larger risks vs just cash checks?

    It seems there is a fine line between taking risks, sticking to a known recipe, appeasing old fans, bringing in new ones, and most importantly making money on their investment (complete with new enough characters to sell new toys)... All while keeping the story for 10 movies connected.



    Long story short: everyone has opinions. Technically no one is wrong... Yet. Until the movie is out no one can argue the movie will be undeniably all-new versus a rehash or anything in between.
     
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  18. bigbayblue

    bigbayblue Rebel Official

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    I was thinking how similar The Last Jedi looks to be to The Force Awakens.

    Both movies have a female lead.
    The main antagonist looks almost exactly the same - the only difference is that he has a scar.
    Both films have stories that revolve around a mystical energy that binds the galaxy together.
    There are spaceships that shoot lasers at each other.
    The medical equipment they use on injured characters looks pretty similar.
    When there are explosions (and both movies have them), afterward, things burn.
    A lot of the of the bad guys wear helmets.
    Most of the planets look like places that can be found on Earth.

    It's pretty much just the same thing all over again. #cashgrabretread
     
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