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Willing Suspension of Disbelief- What do We Allow Now?

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by cawatrooper, Nov 5, 2019.

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Is the "Contract" of Suspension of Disbelief being Withheld, in General?

  1. Viewers are having more of a difficult time holding up their end

    5 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. Filmmakers are having a problem creating the environment needed for this

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Both sides are equally at fault

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Both sides are withholding their end of the bargain

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I watched some videos about the ideas behind Greek theater lately, and one thing really stuck out to me: the sort of social contract that happens during a production between the audience and those involved in the story, centered around the willing suspension of disbelief.

    Or, in a nutshell, the idea that moviegoers enter a movie knowing full well that the events that they'll be seeing are fictional, but will still immerse themselves in that fiction to allow them to most fully enjoy the story being told. After all, by actively fighting the suspension of disbelief you're more likely to not enjoy a film, at which point it becomes questionable of why you'd even waste your time on the experience in the first place.

    I know that there are some times that the lines on this project get kinda blurred- for instance, in movies where the fourth wall is broken for comedic purposes, or in films like the Blair Witch Project where the line between fact and fiction is so blurred that viewers maybe cannot reliable count on what they're seeing to not be fact.

    And, of course, I realize that we're dealing with an ancient variant of social theory that has certainly been malleable and simplified over the years to apply to various situations.

    But, do you think that the way we approach suspension of disbelief has changed? I mean, there are all sorts of movies that have been popular this year- Marvel's cosmic universe, Joker's more down to earth take, whimsical stuff like Detective Pikachu and Yesterday, terrifying supernatural cults like in Midsommar...

    There is no singular set of rules that we judge movies as a whole by when it comes to suspension of disbelief, no do I think there should be. A slapstick comedy shouldn't be beholden to the exact same of physical limitations as the next Lars von Trier nightmare fuel, and a Marvel film should be different from them both.

    Well, what about films in the same universe? Star Wars comes to mind, but think even about Marvel- they've done a fantastic job of balancing characters of various strengths, weaknesses, and backgrounds, but there's no denying that power balancing is a fluid and constantly changing thing.

    Maybe this has gotten kinda rambly, and I hope I get across what I mean to, but I guess my point is that I feel maybe something has gone wrong with this social contract. As movies have gotten more and more advanced in the tech available to them, audiences have expected more and more- but is that really fair? At what point does the filmmaker hit a point of diminishing returns, and can we reliable say that the viewer's expectations will be reasonably tempered?

    I don't know, maybe "armchair critics are ruining the moviegoing experience" isn't as original of a sentiment as I originally thought when formulating this idea, but I do like how it's framed from the perspective of the contract between audience and filmmaker.

    Any thoughts on this? Do audiences have an obligation to filmmakers, and vice versa? Are both holding up their side of the bargain?
     
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  2. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Specifically with SW, there's a problem when audiences of vastly different generations bring different baggage into the theater with them. SW was essentially static for a decade until Zahn novels, and - contrary to the 90s generation - many fans didn't keep up with the EU. So there was already 2 different generations with vastly different ideas about say...the Force.

    The ysalamiri 'broke' the religion first - and then there was an entire series of books based on their same sci-fi mechanism to limit the Force, which was already antithetical to the early generation's understanding that came from Yoda and Obi-Wan.

    But the relevant question here would be....was Lucas bound to those understandings when he made the prequels? He made a prophecy, emphasized more superhuman physical feats (which even Zahn is quoted as hating when he saw it), and a virgin birth.

    But of course, he also had Yoda say: "misread, may have been". A cop out? A retcon? Maybe. But nevertheless, we - the audience - have entire threads about the prophecy. Hell, Disney era has an entire novel nearly devoted to how prophecies are interpreted and not really to be taken at face value. But do we - the audience - remember that? Nope, we continue to debate the chosen one stuff and midichlorians (even though Luke himself says that the Jedi sucked).

    And now Disney was able to pick and choose what was canon going forward, and they aren't going to be beholden to 'rules' that were created 20 years ago. That may not be fair to sections of the 'audience' but the 'rules' have nearly been take out of the creators' hands (plural) by the fan culture. I don't see how fair that was, when even Lucas couldn't really satisfy those standards.
     
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  3. Darth Goon

    Darth Goon Rebelscum

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    It was easier to buy into it as a child during the OT years. Now that I'm a grumpy old curmudgeon, I have a hard time buying into now
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    For the viewers: It's the Cinema Sins of it all. We [the general audience and specifically active online folks] have trained ourselves to not have suspension of disbelief because we watch looking for issues. If you can accept The Force as a concept you can accept bombs falling from space. To do otherwise is quite literally just inane.
    I loathe Cinema Sins because I truly think they are at the crux of this in terms of the audience viewing of movies. It's really easy to fix: if you are watching a fantasy or fiction in general, just take it as it is until the movie contradicts itself or poses a series of questions that don't add up. (I'll cover this in a minute)

    For Film Makers: I think one reason why Marvel movies do so well and score so many easy points with critics and fans, is they built a verisimilitude laden world. It's as seamless as that kind of world can be in film and you believe it exists. They do a great job fitting real world events into the MCU. They don't have Cap in WW2 then it's nothing...it's taught in classes and at museums. Yet this is obviously difficult to do.

    Movies contradicting itself: Take the movie Bright. It self-deflates it's own world building by referencing real world events that would have not occurred in the Bright universe as they did in ours because...ORCS AND ELVES. And they do it multiple times. It breaks the world. This is on top of other structural issues so it's even more glaring.

    Movies posing questions that don't add up:
    In The Joker, they have Arthur interact with the Waynes, Bruce specifically, and even show the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne. But at his age, it raises serious questions on how this would ever work with Batman. Batman would kill Arthur Fleck by accident just by punching him. And then it plays with the mental illness angle but never does anything with it. So does Batman just beat up a mentally ill man? What's going on here> Why does this matter? Because it causes ripples in the world. If they just leave Bruce out entirely and either don't invoke mental illness or actually do something with it, the movie gets closer to being air tight. But they didn't so these questions exist and are fair to be raised. It breaks my immersion when I have to think how this fits in the world the movie is presenting.

    So a film maker has to avoid these things within a series. It's obviously easier said than done.
     
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