Women in The First Order?

the principles of the First Order aren't 100% Imperial. the FO acknowledges that the Empire made mistakes.
the reason all the officers are "British" is because they were raised from the children (and bastards) of Imperials (male or female), so the constitution of the Order itself is deliberately homogenous in some ways.

they also have an alien for a figurehead, they are not as opposed/skeptical about using Force energy.
and somewhere out there is a Chiss we all know, who almost certainly had influence on the rise of this order.

likewise (and more to the point), Rae Sloane is one of the founding leaders of the FO (so far as we can tell), so yes, women would certainly hold high rank in this new regime.

 

TFA takes place 30 years after ROTJ, so even if we assume that the Empire's staff consisted of white men the First Order's employment policy could have been uptadeted to be more inclusive, just like in modern world there's much more diversity in US Army in terms of sex and race. Sure, white males are still the most frequent group, but many more groups are present than there were 30 years ago. I don't understand how it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Time passes and things change.

 

i'm talking about the Aftermath books.

the First Order is not the Empire.
so whatever George Lucas might have originally conceived in that vein is moot.
the First Order is the First Order.
so far what we know of its origins is that a woman, Admiral Rae Sloane, took an "ark" of Imperials to the Unknown Regions to probably meet up with Thrawn (the Chiss), and begin to form the new order.

it's thoroughly thought out. and absolutely stands to scrutiny.

the First Order has, as its commanding general, the son of a relative nobody, who is a bastard to boot: therefore technically impure. (Hux)
and again, an alien for a figurehead (Snoke).
both very deliberately against Imperial standards.
nothing about its composition is exactly the same as the old Empire.
it appears to have a bias toward human leadership, but there's still a lot we don't know.

i didn't even have to click your profile to know that you must be a man ~ hahaha
if you've ever seen women fight, you know that they are more vicious and more cunning than men;
they absolutely have the capacity for violence; they serve in our armies (as combatants), and they will kill to protect their families, countries, ideals, etc.

General Leia and Mon Mothma, despite being politicians, have been making war since the OT.
yes, Padme desired to be a pacifist, but even she took up a gun when necessary.

it's true we don't have a definitive statement on the status of women, but their presence is evidence enough.
yes, you could argue that new canon has tinkered with Lucas' original vision (Lost Stars and the Aftermath books both show women in the Empire in leadership positions--though they do struggle), but more importantly, as i said at the beginning, the FO is not the Empire and has deliberately changed its power structure.

 

Females can definitely exist in the First Order and hold up to scrutiny.

When it comes to the OT era and the Empire though, it gets a little murky. Most of the time it works, it's only when they attempt to add females to pre-existing locations, vehicles etc that it falls flat imo.

Since the First Order is a new organisation in a new era, there is no pre-existing material that can cause people to doubt the authenticity of what's presented to them.

 

i sincerely apologize for offending you by calling you a man (was completely not my intention).
but your remark about women was pretty off-putting to me so let's just call it even and move on. fair?

of course if people make the assumption that the First Order = the Empire, then something is going to look hinky here.
but nowhere in the movies is it stated that the FO is the Empire, so that's not a problem with the film, it's a problem with the assumption.

i don't really understand the point of discussing the movies out of context of the EU since all of this is completely explained there, so i will happily recuse myself.

 

Star Wars has been since the very beginning a strongly feminist franchise and the fact that there are women in army is just a continuation of this trend. Also, a reminder - we saw women as soldiers both in OT and PT. In Episode V one of the communications officer was a woman and in Episode I we saw a couple of female pilots, both serving the Republic and Naboo army. Once more I remind you that time also passed between Episode VI and VII and attitudes towards specific groups, like women in army, change with time in real world, just like people chsnge the way they look. If you can accept that Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker is the same person despite being played by five actors, you should also be able to accept a change in the Empire's, and later the First Order's employment policy.

 

In-universe explanation

There was a ceiling for female officers in Palpatine's galactic empire, but that ceiling fractured with the fall of the emperor. The First Order realized that it were the actions of female imperial officers which helped the Empire survive and reform in the aftermath of the destruction of the second Deathstar. Female officers like Iden Versio (Battlefront 2), Rae Sloane and Ciena Ree who led the charge in the final days of the empire. Furthermore, a paradigm change in terms of gender roles is only natural for a militant organization that is short on money, people and resources and is facing an acute existential threat.

Lucasfilm explanation

Star Wars main audience has always consisted of men and women. However there were specific characteristics which made the Star Wars franchise perhaps less attractive to women than it deserved:

1. Most main characters in EU and movies were male. The main story was primarily focused around the fate and fortune of two male protagonists: Luke and Anakin. Even though there were women fans they had less female characters that represented their side of the story. Furthermore the representation of women in Star Wars uncomforably hovered between either a strong feminst representation or an overtly sexist portrayel.

2. As a consequence Star Wars actually was less attractive to women which ultimately meant they were in the absolute minority as compared to male fans.

3. There is also a missed business opportunity of course. Making Star Wars more attractive to a female demographic also means more female fans and hence more income.

The inclusion of woman, even retrojectively into the main canon, is a way of remedying these problems.

 

Yes we'll be keeping a close watch on you good sir.



Hux out.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---

Only 'female' good guys is also a sexist construct. For good order, I never reply to just snippets quoted from my original post. I only reply to posters who reply to my entire argument.

 

On the topic of the Empire being modeled after Nazi Germany, for sure, the original poster is correct.
The Empire, in the old Legends EU and the new official canon, does indeed have a bias towards Male Humans.
The only alien and female exceptions being extremely talented and deserving of their place, because the Emperor respects talent, no matter where it comes from.
However, in terms of the First Order, it's not so much modeled after Nazi Germany as it is more modern issues.
The First Order and its members represent a younger generation who ignore heroes of the past and idolise monsters, committing atrocities in the name of what they consider to be right.
Whereas the Old Empire represented a faceless,monolithic, oppressive corporation or regime, the First Order is more along the lines of an extremist group or misguided young people who shoot up schools.
Story wise, the remnants of the Empire that fled and became the First Order simply couldn't be picky about whom they accept and do not, they simply wouldn't have had the numbers for that, and by the time of The Force Awakens, decades later, you've had a society built upon several powerful female voices, the gender disparity wouldn't exist in that type of society anymore.
In terms of women representing life and peace in the Episodes I-VI, the original poster is correct in a sense, that Lucas was certainly playing on some of those ideas, but the new films are also a reflection of a changing society, both real and fictional, and that women (like all people) can be both good and evil.

So I personally do not believe there to be an issue showing women in positions of power within the First Order, it simply makes sense from a narrative point of view, as well as a real world one.

 

First Order was in fact founded by a woman. Admiral Rae Sloane. (Aftermath: Empire's end). She prevented abosolute oblivion of remnants of the Imperial Forces at Jakku, as Palpatine give an order to Admiral Gallius Rax to take care Empire doesn't live anymore if he dies.

S.n.o.k.e. came onto a stage in later years and took control of the First Order that escaped into unknown Regions under command of Rae Sloane..


Admiral Rae Sloane, last commander of the Impierial forces escaping into Unknown Regions.

 

I agree with you. Once the Empire went down it would be obvious that they would have to learn from their mistakes and if they indeed wanted to be back on top they couldn't afford to be picky. They needed manpower fast so things like color or gender would not matter. Another thing we have to consider is that Snoke is now running things instead of the Emperor so his ideals may be extremely different.